It’s weektwenty-four of our planned off-season re-watch of the entire “re-imagined” BSG canon, and it’s time to move on to the season2.5 episodes “Epiphanies.” So why not join us here for the GWC online frak party? There’s room for everyone, though you’ll have to bring your own snacks…
Feel free to jump in at any point with your comments on this week’s episode as the re-watch is by definition spoiler free. We’ll be in and out, but we’ll definitely take a look at your comments before we start next week’s podcast.
See you here all week!
Always on time!
Don’t know if someone else posted this yet, pretty cool:
this week’s episode they interview kevin frazier, the science advisor to BSG and Eureka.
This is the episode where Helo really begins to come into his own.
I cant understand why Laura would want to terminate Sharon’s pregnancy. Sharon’s contributions aside, it just doesn’t make sense, strategically, or keeping with Laura’s character.
It would seem to me that, if Sharon has been such a military asset so far, she would be motivated even more to cooperate if the humans were holding her child.
Helo argued with Bill about how much Sharon had helped them. Bill responded that she was ‘just trying to survive’. That’s not quite true. She would have downloaded. But not the baby. She was keeping herself alive to keep her baby alive.
So, why would everyone be scared of a BABY? I don’t get it. Coddle and Balter both agreed that Hara had certain anomalies in her blood (before Baltar discovered the cancer-curing ability). It seems to me that the research opportunity would have trumped most arguments for terminating the pregnancy.
The fact that Hara would mean super bargaining power would trump the rest.
Hi guys and gals. I was certain the absence of Lee’s sunglasses in the later water/floaty scene was significant but RDM’s commentary didn’t mention it and I haven’t been able to figure it out on my own. 🙁 I feel stupid but I don’t really feel bad about it. 🙂
this isnt the one where billy dies is it?
is he dead yet?
im kinda not following the rewatch
Shame on you Boxy! We’d box you, but uh, we can’t. Billy’s still alive.
I love this episode! Like PB and jelly, politics and sexual affairs go hand in hand.
And Baltar! I love how he goes above and beyond something simple to show his love. No, like a crazy dictator, the greatest treasure he owns is a nuclear warhead (or nucular warhead, if you happen to be Carter, Clinton, or Bush). Maybe diamond rings are in short supply and he just had to make do with what he had. Hey, whatever works, I guess.
Above the Love, I totally agree with you (and Baltar) that Laura’s decision to abort Sharon’s pregnancy makes no sense–for all of the excellent reasons you outlined in your post. And it’s why I voted my first ever “disapprove” in this week’s presidential approval poll.
I think we can chalk this up to “plot requires.” The writers wanted to set up the dramatic irony of having Laura’s life depend on a life that she wants to terminate. Never mind that Laura has to do something out of character and illogical to get there.
I’m really interested to see how the approval poll goes this week.
Above the Love and Jason: Here, here! This decision always confused me, too. Yes, Laura is trying to tie up all the loose ends before she dies (perhaps why she opted for killing Cain instead of trying to out-maneuver her–she wasn’t sure she’d have time for anything more complicated), but how is Sharon’s baby a loose end? It would almost make more sense for Roslin to want to airlock Sharon before she dies because it seems like Sharon posed a bigger potential threat than any infant could, Cylon or no. Plus, in just a few episodes, we see Roslin really struggling with outlawing abortion in the Fleet because she has fought for “a woman’s right to control her own body” throughout her career. Where was that sentiment in this episode? Roslin didn’t let Sharon have control of her body, that’s for sure.
Something else to think about: Athena and Caprica Six have always acted as Hera’s protectors, but this episode clearly demonstrates that Laura, the other woman in the Opera House, hasn’t. Does Laura grow into the role of Hera’s protector throughout the series? Or maybe they’re not all there to keep Hera safe from the white, glowy Final Five sitting in the balcony. I’ve been toying with the idea that Athena, Six, and Laura are like the Fates, the very powerful, very spooky trio of women in Greek mythology that spin, measure, and cut the thread of life for every mortal. These three definitely are powerful women, and the Opera House vision makes it seem as if they hold Hera’s fate in their hands…any thoughts?
Kappa: Athena is a protective mother. Caprica Six protects Hera because of religious belief that fervently leads her to seeing Hera as a Messianic figure perhaps. Since faking Hera’s death Roslin’s goal was to protect Hera by keeping her away from the Cylons which would thereby protect the Fleet. The growth started on Roslin’s part, in my view, after Hera’s blood saved her life and she then became something in Roslin’s mind not necessarily worthy of air-locking.
While I think Roslin’s orders with Hera may be irrational, but they are not completely unsupported. It has been hinted that Hera will play a major role in determining the final outcome of the Cylon/Human struggle. Clearly, Laura has shown the ability to accurately perceive things in the future. She apparently has divined this important role for Hera (while not understanding the details) she avoided risking her falling into Cylon hands and their eventual domination by the Cylons by having her eliminated. This may not necessarily be logical, but a number of times in the show characters have acted illogically (i.e., Baltar listening to a voice in his head, giving in to faith and therefore randomly picking the one vulnerable point of the Cylon mining facility) and yet still been correct. Laura doesn’t need a reason, she has clear faith in her visions. At this point her complete distrust of Baltar is irrational (based on sickness induced recovered memories), but entirely correct as well.
The Alpaca Herder: Yeah, I agree that after the abortion attempt, Laura shifted into looking out for Hera’s best interests, even in faking Hera’s death. It didn’t turn out that great (though it could have been a lot worse), and it looked mighty suspicious, but it was reasonable for her to think that Hera might be in danger from the Cylons, especially if you take the deleted scenes of D’Anna Biers’s plan to sneak Hera out in her camera bag as canonical. And by the time New Caprica comes into the picture, it seems like Laura has become quite attached to Hera. I just have this feeling that there’s more to Laura being in the Opera House with Athena and Six than merely having Cylon blood running through her veins; there has to be some connection between the four of them, though I guess it might just be that they’re all three Hera’s protectors.
Phil: I never looked at it from that perspective before. It definitely seems like Laura understands how important Hera is in “Exodus;” doesn’t she even tell Anders that Hera “is the shape of things to come” when she asks him to get Hera safely off the planet? I never thought of applying this prescience so early in the series, but it makes sense. Maybe there’s even scripture or additional visions or even just gut feelings that Laura knows about but that we don’t, yet.
yeah for billy
Good argument Phil.
we see Roslin really struggling with outlawing abortion in the Fleet because she has fought for â€œa womanâ€™s right to control her own bodyâ€ throughout her career. Where was that sentiment in this episode? Roslin didnâ€™t let Sharon have control of her body, thatâ€™s for sure.
I don’t think anyone, save for Helo and the Chief look at Sharon as a woman right now…
Oooh- fun redesign : )
What a psychological episode! I’d write out my take on Roslyn but it really just rehashes everything that people have already said. It is almost strange how her heart is truly in the right place, trying to protect her 40k at the cost of one halfie, but forcing abortion on someone is unconscionable.
This is really more related to the Pegasus arc but I have been thinking a lot of Lee. He really does seem to have hit his turning point the moment that his father tells him that Roslyn ordered the assassination of Admiral Cain. He hated Cain but he truly is committed to the rule of law and the survival of colonial society. Someone pointed this out on the Resurrection Ship frak party and I completely agree: Lee had nothing left to live for if his father, so recently a figure of trust, could lie and kill and usurp power with the collusion of the head of state. He needs to trust Adama in order to have faith in the options that they have left and the mission to find Earth. Why bother if they arenâ€™t worthy of survival when they arrive. Poor Lee sees so many things that more or less convince him that there isnâ€™t anything worth saving between this moment and Karaâ€™s death. What is it that convinces him that thereâ€™s nothing worth saving- that itâ€™s too far deteriorated- but that there is something worth building from? Itâ€™s something that Iâ€™ll have to think about as I rewatch seasons 2.5 and 3.
Finally, has anyone ever thought of what BSG might have been like if Gaius hadn’t read the letter from Laura and become so personally invested in beating her? I think it’s that, much more than the desire to do anything for his and Head Six’s child (despite her urging him to pursue power for the purpose of protecting Hera), that truly motivates his political ascendancy. The letter was unwise, IMO, even though she never expected to face him again: to challenge Baltar is to goad him, encourage his most base tendencies, and send tremors through the fault lines of his several weaknesses. In this sense, does Laura share some of the blame for New Caprica?
For those interested, Amazon now has the Razor DVD listed for pre-order at $19.99. I figured that the $30+ price was not right that they had listed before.
the letter to baltar seems completely ironic on a couple levels…it is written before roslin actually realizes that baltar was a collaborator (unwitting or otherwise) to the destruction of the colonies. and that baltar has just shown compassion (or as close as he will get to it) to gina, in resurrection ship part 2. and also that baltar did not want to be president (which i think is his own understanding of his self serving nature). until after he read this letter. i think he did feel shame about his conduct (maybe more anger ) but his head six pulls an ellen tigh on him, and he is lost….
great redesign. when do we get a poster?
Really don’t have much to say.
I thought the idea of terminating the pregnancy came out from left field.
This is probably one of my least favorite episodes.
a few more thoughts:
roslyn wanting to kill hera. maybe unconsciously she just wanted to hurt sharon, and this would be the most painful (emotionally) thing that she could do. it seems like her illness and imminent death made her more ruthless, rather than more compassionate. she acts with a sense of urgency, and she has lost her abilitiy to think that there could be common ground with the cylons. i wonder if her vision/flashback about meeting with the teacher’s union was not also meant to be a harbinger of the common ground she must find with sharon. Also, airlocking sharon would have possibly allowed the cylons to know about hera, if sharon downloaded to a new body, so that was out of the question. finally, she did not trust baltar to run the government, and thought that this would be the easiest thing to do…
it is interesting how much adama’s view of sharon has changed since this episode.
if cylon blood was so “distinguishable” – why couldn’t baltar’s cylon detector work? this was a really goofy use of scientific explanation.
anyone notice that the appearance and later disappearance of the flesh and blood gina made his visions of head six go away? he comments how head six has been “away” for a few weeks…