July 29, 2007

GWC Podcast #56

Like GWC’s “punchy” ‘casts? You’ll love this one. Highlights: a caller lets us know Chuck’s “awesome” except for the fact that he says “awesome” too much — awesome! — and we reveal our secret identities, clarify the sailing ships and starships concept (and discuss possible explanations),talk about which BSG characters we’d want with us on an off-Galactica mission, discuss The Fair Melissa’s bet-winning flying car find, ponder the origin of the Cylon(z), question the accuracy of Boomer’s under-torture revelations, try to decide what kind of tattoo Sean’ll get this year, get all fanboy (and girl) on pyramid, welcome Adama Sr. back to consciousness, and apologize for dropping the ball on last week’s frak party post. Our bad.


79 Responses to "GWC Podcast #56"
  1. emiliano says:

    Caprica Buckaneers = C-Bucks

  2. habu73 says:

    The official team name is the Caprica Buccaneers , C-Bucks is a nickname, ala the Packers and the Pack. For proof, check out
    http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Caprica_Buccaneers
    The insignia clearly (in a blurry sort of way) shows Buccaneers.
    So cough up the quarters guys 🙂

  3. Audra says:

    I was fooled, I tell ya! 🙂

    I was thinking “Sea Bucks” rather than “C-Bucs,” which clearly is just a nickname for the Buccaneers. So we’re all right! (Or wrong.)

  4. The Alpaca Herder says:

    Now that I am not having more Gunny Mathias/Jayne moments with needs to reinforce barriers, protect charges, and ward off intruders…I can actually spend a moment to listen to the podcast! Herding any sort of animals is not as easy as it sounds in the face of coyotes (the canine variety, mind you) invading. Although I am learning that if you miss one week of this podcast…oh my word can you get lost…

    Meet-ups: Some day I might have a travel budget again. Unless it is tied to going to something like (*cough* *cough*) SW/PCA 2008 (*cough* *cough*) not much is doable right now. Until then things are what they are.

    Pete from Orlando’s remarks about boats: Even Picard had models of sailing ships showing in the office. A key part to the BSG back story, though, is that what we see is a reboot of Colonial society. The Colonies were fairly advanced and then the Cylon War happened. At that point the Colonies went quite a ways backward in tech and then worked their way forward again. Besides, the Vipers are referred to by Saul Tigh, Bill Adama, Dee, and others as as planes and can operate in both atmo and vacuum. I would not consider it necessarily a break as to the disappearance of planes but instead it is perhaps that the “planes” are just far more flexible in terms of where they can operate. After all, the Space Shuttle can operate in space and in atmosphere flies like a glider…and that is technology that was plotted out in the 1970’s! Perhaps in the RDM universe the concept of “plane” evolved but the terminology remained the same.

    As to leaving Kobol for the Colonies: Elosha will utter in a few episodes that ships were taken in leaving Kobol. This will be seen if memory serves in Home, Part One. It is left open as to what kind of ship. Athena and Elosha are the ones debating such in the episode where Athena is really quoting scripture competitively with Elosha.

    Bets: I got nuthin’

    Roslin as Moses: This one is debatable. Who is the Moses of RDM’s universe? I keep wondering if it actually is supposed to be Starbuck as the lines at the end of The Episode That Must Not Be Named seem to imply. As I said, this is debatable.

    As to Starbuck and Anders deciding upon each other as boyfriend-girlfriend after realizing each other is “hot”: Remember, Starbuck is rather emotionally screwed up. Physically she is a mature, attractive female adult. Mentally…no, not so much. In many respects inside we have seen her just as a scared, broken-down little girl inhabiting the body of an adult with adult desires and emotions that are incomprehensible. Is it a prerequisite to not be all there in the head to date/marry a Cylon? Helo is not exactly the most “together” in the head. Chief is pretty frakked up and then we see that he happened to be a Cylon anyhow. Ellen was not exactly all there but Saul was her world.

    Unfortunately from the above it seems that the only “stable” members of the flight crew are either Racetrack or Athena.

    Off-ing Boomer: Although this could be seen in light of people’s rage against Sharon…this shows Cally as a very jealous person very desirous of a very particular goal.

    Katee Sackhoff: Tattoos? Tattoos? Oh. My. Word. She has a pretty big amount. The tattoo Audra is thinking of is something I cannot recall. The constant band-aids and other things obscuring up by the shoulders of Starbuck got rid of the audience seeing one tattoo that was finally inked over supposedly by Unfinished Business. Another tattoo raises the problem of whether or not Latin exists within the RDM world as the words “Bona Fiscalia” apparently show up.

    Gaeta’s tiger tattoo: To be seen in Final Cut.

    Audra on Helo referring to the Caprica Bucaneers: According to the RDM podcast, it was supposed to be a moment akin to running into the Harlem Globetrotters in an unexpected place. Caprica Bucaneers and C-Bucs are equivalent as far as I am concerned. This is like abbreviating the names of teams like the LA Raiders, the (Cleveland) Browns, etc.

    Issues between Ellen and Tigh: One line that was cut at the writing stage in Final Cut was, according to the RDM podcast, Saul finds Ellen all tied up prior to the encounter with Palladino and RDM wanted Saul to say something akin to: “No honey, not tonight.”

    Dee as a corrupting influence: Was Dee the one who helped Gaeta go down the road to perdition? Could it be said that Dee is soon to be Lee’s version of Ellen?

    Galactica Theory of Everything episode: I am up for such. Heck, I might even call in for it! My theory is simply this: Although in the beginning the parts of the RDM show bible seen say that BSG is a story about a chase it has greatly diverged from that. BSG is not a chase story or even a “pure” Sci-Fi story but rather is a story about love and how love impacts the world in which we live.

    Great podcast!

  5. Radio Picon says:

    I agree with Alpaca, the story has told us they left Kobol in ships. I believe it was Elosha who said the tribes were fleeing the “Blaze” and left in a “great galleon” That certainly sounds like some sort of vessel to me. I still wonder what in the blazes the Blaze was! Perhaps it was another way of saying they had a nuclear holocaust back on Kobol too.

  6. Pike says:

    I don’t know if Audra meant it this way, but “Nutcracker Suite” is a perfect term for a guy in tight-tights.

    As mentioned, KS has a few tats. The one on her shoulder blade that keeps getting covered with a bandage is a cross (possibly a crucifix.)

    Chuck mentioned Asimov. I don’t know if this is the story he was thinking of, but it is rather Pythian: http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

  7. Radio Picon says:

    I have a question…why did two gun shots to the abdomen at very close range not kill Adama…but just one to the belly kills a Cylon like Boomer within seconds?

    Chuck, sounded like you kept moving away from the mike this podcast..I had to keep turning it up to hear you!

  8. The Alpaca Herder says:

    Pike — As of the third season I thought the crucifix was inked over to being an inverted black pyramid? Once that was done I thought it was then able to be shown without having to deal with the possibility of how you would reconcile Christian symbolism in RDM’s universe for Battlestar Galactica.

    Radio Picon — As to why two shots did not kill Adama yet one shot killed Boomer…perhaps Cally was using explosive rounds on Boomer while Boomer did not shoot Adama with such? Folks in Tyrol’s deck gang sure seem to have an inordinately high level of access to weapons to where the Master at Arms (Hadrian) may well be unaware of what is going on. After all, Cally was whacked with the charge for discharging a firearm without permission for which she spent 30 days in Club Brig…

  9. Pike says:

    Alpaca, I thought that was makeup, but it may indeed be an ink-over (if so, Damn, that’s comminment to character!)

  10. Radio Picon says:

    I feel like being an active poster today for some reason…

    Alpaca, you’re right that the ammunition might have been different. I guess one could also says Cally hit some vital organ in Boomer while Adama just got bullets in his fat. I’m glad you brought up Cally only spending 30 days in the brig. True, Miss “Oswald-with-bangs” didn’t kill a human per se, but at the very least she killed a potential goldmine of intelligence for the Colonials. Surely that alone would have gotten her into more serious trouble. Maybe they felt they couldn’t afford to loose anyone’s labor for longer than a month, but still!

  11. Raemani says:

    Alpacaa Herder said “Katee Sackhoff: Tattoos? Tattoos? Oh. My. Word. She has a pretty big amount. The tattoo Audra is thinking of is something I cannot recall. The constant band-aids and other things obscuring up by the shoulders of Starbuck got rid of the audience seeing one tattoo that was finally inked over supposedly by Unfinished Business. Another tattoo raises the problem of whether or not Latin exists within the RDM world as the words “Bona Fiscalia” apparently show up.”

    It is a crucifix that they were covering with bandaids and the like. And the tatoo that is there is now is I believe really just a tatoo that they apply with make-up, just like the one that is on her arm that matchs Anders – that come together to make a ring with wings. I know the one on her arm is not real, and am 99% sure that the other one is just make-up too.

    I will check on Labor Day weekend when I get to meet her at Dragon*Con

  12. Stroogie says:

    “Oswald-with-bangs”! Yes! (Had to pick myself up off the floor after that one, RP.) The first time I saw this episode, I knew as soon as they started that scene that they were gonna do the Jack Ruby to Boomer. It’s similar to the scene with Roslin’s swearing in that they shot it to look like the picture of LBJ’s swearing in. The parallel was so strong I knew that Boomer wasn’t long for this world. Well, until she downloaded.

    I’m not usually into Theories-of-Everything, but when Chuck started talking about the ships problem…again…(you’re AWESOME, Chuck), I started thinking, and I had to pause the podcast to type some stuff up. So yeah, if we have one, I’ll put in my two cents.

    Loved the Harry Potter references, btw. Just finished the last book a couple days ago. Anyone know a good podcast for HP (besides Mugglecast, which I tried and didn’t so much like)?

  13. The Alpaca Herder says:

    Radio Picon — “Maybe they felt they couldn’t afford to loose anyone’s labor for longer than a month, but still!” The thirty day sentence, if anything, confirmed Adama’s view that Cylons are not equal to human beings and that you could not murder what he say as a dangerous machine. The charge was akin to Cally perhaps accidentally using some equipment that resulted in her blowing a hole in the forward windows of a Raptor without authorization. Not too much more of a slap on the wrist than the “unauthorized firearm discharge” charge could be dealt without hitting Cally with no charges at all.

    Raemani — As to stage makeup I am never sure. As far as I could see it was an inverted pyramid around the time of Unfinished and it did not look like a makeup job. I guess we wait until you can report in September then?

    Stroogie — Eventually I will get my hands on the last Potter book. All of the NPR shows that my local affiliate decides are not worth playing (we got tons of classical to the point of overkill it seems) that I have to download in podcast form have bee poking fun at such since the book release. Between Whad’Ya Know? and Wait Wait…Don’t Tell Me it can get interesting with the spoofing.

  14. Armando says:

    Hey Alpaca-consider yourself lucky having an NPR classical station. That’s a rare breed of radio station these days.

    (Though that said, I must say I am not a huge fan of classical radio, even though I’m a classical musician. Their programming choices are so middle of the road boring that, frankly, I’d rather listen to my CD collection.)

    Since I’m still out of town, I’m still behind on the podcast. I’ll have to catch up on 55 and 56 this week. Sorry about that, guys. Been a busy two weeks!

  15. Radio Picon says:

    Stroogie, thanks for pointing out my mistake…yes I totally meant Jack Ruby-with-Bangs and not Oswald!

    Alpaca, true they didn’t think of Cylons as people….but the loss of possible intelligence and information on humanity’s greatest enemy was the crime. I mean, people could spin that up to a treason charge if they wanted! But obviously they had no desire to take the story in that direction.

    Hey Chuck Awesome, I think a “theory of everything” show would be great! I don’t know if you want to do it this soon though. Or if you do, maybe you could plan an additional one in the future just before 4th season starts.

  16. Pike says:

    I think the Theory of Everything podcast should be right before “Razor.” (and maybe another before S4 proper starts.)

    It feels odd that, in only a couple months, the Episode that shall not be named (except by listeners) will change.

  17. Stroogie says:

    Radio Picon–I didn’t mean to sound like I was correcting you, buddy. I knew who you meant, but for some reason, “Oswald-with-bangs” sounds funniest.

    Sean, Awesome, and Coolest: You talked briefly about the gender equality in BSG, and how Roslin’s being a woman never seemed to be an issue for anyone. I just read that India elected a 72-year-old woman to President, Pratibha Patil. She’s their first woman President, and only the 13th President since they gained independence. That’s a pretty fast progression, and adds to the list of countries aside from the U.S. who’ve had women as heads of state.

    On the other hand, President Patil claims to have received messages from a deceased former leader foretelling of her great responsibility to come. Hmmm…BSG “ripped from the headlines”?

  18. Radio Picon says:

    Patil has Indira Gandhi to thank for paving the way in India. Indira was Prime Minister of India for a long while.
    If women had always been treated as equals in civilization we might have doubled the amount of great minds working on technology. NASA might be operating basestars by now!

    Speaking of women in power…it’s nice that they don’t seem to bat an eye at it in BSG, they’re seen as equals. But, having said that, Ellen Tigh sets all women back 50 years.

  19. Mike P says:

    Hey, gang, great episode as always. As an unrepentant Trekkie, though, I have to say that my understanding is those miniskirt uniforms from the original series *were* considered a sign of equality — or, more to the point, sexual liberation — at the time. Of course, they are horribly dated and very few would defend them as such today, but, hey, historical context is everything. 🙂

  20. Leon Kensington says:

    50 years! You give her WAY to much credit.

    Who I would want on my ground team:

    Anders- Two words: Bad Ass
    Tyrol- It’s chief, look at how he is on Kobol.

    And they are cylonz so if it hits the fan I at least won’t be fighting D’Anna

  21. Viper209 says:

    Guys … I’m going to throw this out there and see if this sticks …

    I recently was watching the mini series and have tied a couple of things mentally that I’m going to try and regurgitate here …

    There were a series of episodes of “The Outer Limits” that had Amanda Plumber involving time travel … the one episode I’m looking at out of this was called “Final Appeal” … basically the world had completely turned its back on technology. They knew what it was and why it was turned against.

    In the mini, then Secretary of Education Roslin, made a comment to Cmndr Adama to the effect of “I heard you’re one of those people. You’re actually afraid of computers.” It sounds like there were many old war dogs in the fleet and I would think that in civilian society there were many people who believed that technology was evil and hence was shunned.

    Sooooo to wrap up this rambling, basically I think society as a whole for a while after the cylon war shunned technology and returned to more “analog” means of doing things, hence sailing ships, manual technologies, non-networked computers etc etc etc.

  22. Jim says:

    Please see my post on post 55 about Number 3 coming back

    Jim

  23. Jim says:

    oops I mean Podcast #55

  24. Dave says:

    Hi all

    Mike P- I always thought the miniskirts in the ST;TOS were considered a sign that Roddenberry was a horndog. I ain’t mad at him tho! Lotsa good side boobage too for a 60’s show…but I digress.

    Viper209 – that’s a part of my theory as well, but I am saving that for the “theory of everything” podcast/thread

    Peace out yo!

  25. Melissa (aka the Fair Melissa) says:

    I had been waiting so patiently for the “Resistance” frak party- I am too far ahead in the rewatch- because I was so surprised by Gaeta’s actions helping Lee get Roslin off Galactica. Throughout Season 3 we all talked about how upstanding he was and what a shock it was for him to flat out lie on the stand during Baltar’s trial – and yet he looks Tigh right in the eyes (ah, the good old days) and lies about the scrambled calls – and for what? To help out Dee? Baltar wasn’t involved, so we can’t even go with the whole “unrequited love” (yes, I firmly believe that Gaeta is/was Smithers to Baltar’s Mr. Burns – excellent!).

  26. Ben in Austin says:

    Next time you come to Austin I will definitely show up, but I was on the road for 6 weeks this summer. Though I might have missed the Austin meet-up, if not for being in research libraries all day everyday I never would have caught up with all of the past episodes of the Watercooler. Chuck, thanks for cutting back on “That’s Awesome” in this week’s podcast.

  27. Peter from Orlando says:

    Thanks for playing my comment about the sailing ships. I have one more comment on it:

    Lets say that our heros reach earth and find that there is no one on it. How are they going to get food? how will they explore?

    They will cut down trees and start making ships, that’s how. and 10,000 years later when it all happens again and they flee earth for a new home, will you be surprised that whoever is in charge is building a model of a sailing ship that was created on earth?

    Basically what I’m suggesting is that the ship Adama is building is a model of a ship from Caprica’s past, there is no gap in memory. Just because they got there in space ships doesn’t mean they brought good boats with them too.

    Ok, now I’ll mind the gap about the ships.

  28. Leon Kensington says:

    Kudos to Peter.

  29. Radio Picon says:

    Melissa…Gaeta as Smithers!!! hahaahah hilarious! Of course! That never even crossed my mind but it is sooo true!

    Viper, maybe they returned to wooden ships after arriving from Kobol in the beginning, but I don’t think it was after the first Cylon war. That was only 50 years ago. What I got from miniseries, specifically from Doral-as-tourguide was that ships like the Galactica stopped networking computers and used phones with cords after the war. He said they looked toward the past to build the future or something. He didn’t seem to be explaining this to people who already knew it, so I think the anachronistic technology was more a military thing.

  30. Phil says:

    I apologize for quoting myself, but I accidentally posted the following under the rewatch (I was wondering why no one else was commenting on anything relevant to the podcast)…

    “Chuck, thanks for the much better explanation of what I was hinting at with my comment about the sailing ship. To clarify and feeding off the discussions that followed there are a couple of possibilities:

    1) The Colonials were brought from Kobol to the Colonies by a greater power (the actual Lords of Kobol?) at a point when or prior to a point when sailing technology was still state of the art. If this is the case then they would have had to further evolve their own ability for space flight over a few thousand years. The one part I like about this theory is that not only would the Lords of Kobol be real but also the transportation via a greater power could be compatible with humanity actually originating on Earth. As some point in our distant past a subgroup of humans were originally brought from Earth to Kobol before their subsequent transport to the Colonies and back to Earth.

    2) The Colonials originally came from Kobol under their own power using their own technology, and they subsequently regressed. A number of great comments last week presented reasonable scenarios positing that if the Colonials arrived with only a small number of vessels (like the current RTF) they would not have enough advanced resources to continue their current level of technology and would have to rely on and reinvent older, more basic forms of transportation. Again this scenario would have assume that the regression was so complete to have lost any historical description their exodus from Kobol, and that their only current account in a myth (the Sacred Scrolls) relies on the existence of supernatural Lords of Kobol.”

  31. Phil says:

    Radio Picon brings up an interesting point about the Sacred Scrolls refering to the “Galleon” that transported the Colonials from Kobol. This suggests that the Scrolls were written at a time when the Colonials didn’t have a concept of vessls more advanced than sailing ships. Although, it is possible that it is just a metaphor, but I don’t think we’ve seen them refer to one of their spaceships as a galleon, yet.

    The other interesting point is regardless of whether the Colonials were brought prior to inventing their own means of space flight or if they when through a stage of regression, this might imply that there was an extended period where the 12 colonies were out of contact with each other for a while…

  32. Armando says:

    “Sean, Awesome, and Coolest: You talked briefly about the gender equality in BSG, and how Roslin’s being a woman never seemed to be an issue for anyone. I just read that India elected a 72-year-old woman to President, Pratibha Patil. She’s their first woman President, and only the 13th President since they gained independence. That’s a pretty fast progression, and adds to the list of countries aside from the U.S. who’ve had women as heads of state.”

    I thought Indira Gandhi was the first woman Indian president. Or was she Prime Minister?

  33. Armando says:

    Should have read on further. Never mind.

  34. The Alpaca Herder says:

    Trying to catch up in reverse order…

    Armando — It happens in catching up. I just was so avalanched last week I gave up.

    Phil — From what has been seen about Razor there may be a small attempt to fill in some of the back story about how the Colonies came about. In the presumed non-canonical novels one of them notes that the Colonies came about due to the Cylon War as a means of joint defense that evolved into a confederation. If memory serves the novel that brings this potential backstory up is The Cylons’ Secret. I have the book here somewhere but it may take me a while to find it.

    Melissa and Radio Picon — A good paper to be written some day would be to talk about the sins of Felix Gaeta. The character of Felix Gaeta does seem to parallel the first officer of Moby Dick in several respects especially in terms of how Felix relates to Gaius. ‘Tis merely a thought…

    And two unrelated points to my notes above:

    1. The preview for tomorrow night’s Eureka appears to be a take-off on an old episode of ST:TNG titled “Remember Me”. This does not look too good.

    2. Is it appropriate or proper for a poll to be made relative to a “Theory of Everything” episode?

  35. Kappa says:

    Fair Melissa: I thought that Gaeta not interfering with Roslin’s escape plan was meant to show just how bad a leader everyone thought Tigh was–even *Gaeta* is willing to break the rules, or at least condone others breaking the rules, to pressure Tigh into revoking martial law. Though I’m liking the Smithers analogy, too…

    Stroogie: Try PotterCast. They can still be on the punchy side, but they cater to a generally older listenership than Mugglecast.

  36. The Fair Melissa says:

    I can see how Gaeta would lie to Tigh (could that be a new sport? Tigh Lie?) because he’s such a craaaaaapy leader. I also forgot that it was Tigh that he “informed” of the voting irregularities, which would then be consistent for him to take it up the rank of command. I still think parading yourself around as virtuous as you lie for your own “good” reasons is, well, hypocritical.

  37. Grand Puba says:

    Sorry incorrect pasting again


    My theory on the original journey from Kobol to the colonies.

    All previous posters have assumed that the ships that left Kobol had FTL drives. My theory is that if all mankind began from Kobol, then FTL drives would not have been created as all mankind were on one planet, necessity is the mother of invention. When the great catastrophe occurred, the surviving humans would have left Kobol in 13 generational ships using conventional propulsion. After tens maybe hundreds of years, a) the technology would be ancient and in a state of disrepair, the original builders and maintenance crew would be long dead and knowledge to repair or replace the technology would have been lost.

    When the colonists arrived at their final destinations, the ships and any technology still operational would have been gutted, to create an initial safe haven and mass transport of people to other parts of the planet would have been created with any plentiful materials located on the planet, which is usually wood. The easiest vehicle for moving mass amounts of cargo be it animal, vegetable or mineral is a wooden ship. Taking a modern day example the United States consumes on average 20.6 million barrels of crude oil a day. To transport that amount we could use an oil tanker (e.g. SS Universe Leader) or a plane (cargo converted Boeing 747)

    Assume average density of crude oil = 0.8505 kg/litre

    Transport Type
    Barrels Needed Per Day
    Litres Needed per day
    Total Weight Needed Per Day (kg)
    Transport Max Load (kg)
    Number Transports Per Day

    Oil Tanker
    20.6 million
    2,417,364,680
    2,055,968,660
    57,088,062
    36

    Cargo Plane
    20.6 million
    2,417,364,680
    2,055,968,660
    140,000
    14,685

    From these numbers it would be logistically idiotic not to use sailing ships. After a few generations, one of the colonies would be able to raise their tech levels back to conventional space travel and then invent FTL drives, which would be a NEW technology to that particular colony.

    This theory could also explain the divergent cultures of all the colonies. Since we can assume the colonies are in different star systems some distance away from each other ( Home Part 2). There would have been no contact for a few generations and the colonists would have developed there own cultures and beliefs depending on there environment.

    Aerelon: might not have much in the way of minerals would develop agricultural industries.

    Caprica: probably having a temperate climate and a plentiful supply of necessities would have time and energy to devote to science and art.

    Sagittaron: probably a hostile environment, the populous suffering terribly, look to religion to provide them with spiritual comfort.

    After a few generations one of the colonies, (probably Caprica), invents the FTL drive, contacts the other colonies and begins the long process of re-integration, which by the beginning of the mini series is still not universally accepted. For example Tom Zarek and the S.F.M (Bastille Day) and Leoben Convoy Attempting to steal large scale munitions to sell on the open market.(Mini Series).

    While I am posting I would like to include my theory of the Cylon Skin Jobs.

    Previously in Battlestar Galactica…

    I believe we have been mis-lead and that The Final Five are in fact The First Five. These models then made the same mistake as the colonists and created The Secondary Seven, the first of this group being Brother Cavil. They govern by consensus and eventually a decision has to be made about what to do about the colonists after their incursion into Cylon space (Hero).

    The Final Five vote against genocide, The Significant Seven vote for genocide. This then leads to a civil war with toaster against toaster. The Significant Seven emerge victorious and expel The Final Five survivors and supporters from the Cylon home world, but it is a pyrrhic victory as the homeworld has been virtually destroyed. Now The Significant Seven need a new home and carry out the original majority mandate. But not before completing the project I will call operation Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

    This consists of the mass downloading of all toasters, raiders and skin jobs into new bodies. We know that the Cylon consciousness is temporarily stored before downloading into a new body and unique memories can be distributed between members of the same model. During this storage period portions of memory relating to The Final Five are erased, altered and generally frakked with so that most conscious knowledge of The Final Five is lost. I believe this is carried out by Brother Cavil as I have always suspected he knows more about the The Final Five than he lets on. Un-tampered memories are still in the storage unit and become easier to access the more times you download. Something Brother Cavil claims to have done the most. After the operation is complete The Significant Seven begin the dark machinations to bring about the destruction of the colonists by infiltrating Colonial society.

    Meanwhile in deep space…

    The Final Five may have lost the civil war but will not stand idly by. They begin there own infiltrations. They cannot stop the genocide but they can limit the damage and make sure there are some survivors, civilian and military. (I call it the Foundation Theory).

    Step 1: Push through a Colonial bill allowing the conversion of an old battlestar to a space museum. The Significant Seven will consider an outdated ship as strategically insignificant.

    Step 2: Place Commander Adama in charge. His experience of Cylon tactics and hatred of networked computers will be crucial in the first 24 hours of the attack.

    Step 3: Place a Saul Tigh Sleeper agent as his XO. Since a previous Colonel Tigh model was Adama’s closest friend, no one will suspect he is a Cylon. Just to be on the safe side, program him with a drink problem, leadership issues and makes sure his wife travels in space as much as possible. Preferably on her back. The more he is seen as a joke, The less suspicious he will be.

    Step 4: Alter the bill so that instead of the museum being orbit around Caprica, it is in fact three hours into deep space. Our government sleepers will deflect any embarrassing questions.

    Step 5: Place a Galen Tyrol Sleeper agent as his senior NCO. His mission will be to carry out the slowest decommissioning of a battlestar in colonial history. His secondary mission will be to keep BSG fighting fit. This will be expedited by creating “Delivery Note Errors” such as “Deliver 27
    Mark II Vipers for display purposes” rather than “Deliver 2 Mark II Vipers for display purposes”

    I think you get the idea. I believe that all major happenings in the mini series were pre-arranged by either The Final Five or
    The Significant Seven. Take Ragnar Anchorage. I believe the The Final Five made sure it was fully stocked and fully operational. A final five model made sure the battlestar went to that location for re-supply. A Significant Seven model was despatched to stop them, not knowing about the peculiar effect of the radiation on Cylon physiology.

    What do the other posters think of my theory?

  38. Jim says:

    Very interesting!! I like it Grand Puba

    Jim

  39. Stroogie says:

    “Try PotterCast. They can still be on the punchy side, but they cater to a generally older listenership than Mugglecast.”

    Punchy? I love punchy!

  40. Armando says:

    I am waaaaaay behind on comments here, and only just started listening to the podcast for the week. Forgive me.

    Anyway, Chuck: my thoughts on the missing technology is akin to Peter’s et al. Technology is one of those things that we take for granted until one day we lose the people who can help us make it. Suppose the original humans left Kobol on spaceships yet they didn’t have enough engineers, astrophycisists and other specialists on those ships to immediately recreate the technology on the colonies (not to mention the time, knowledge and resources required to even begin conceiving of space travel).

    Another possibility might be symbolic: take our myth of Noah’s ark. It (the original, or at least oldest, Assyrian version, I think. Someone who knows more help me out, please) comes from a time when most boats were simple canoes, yet the proportions described in the Biblical story are HUUUUUGE. This either means that God truly came down and gave the specific proportions to this one guy to build the boat, along with all of the resources to do it (as well as collecting two…or seven, depending on which version you follow…of every animal) in one single, magical act or, more likely, represents a mythic ideal much as hyperdrive and FTL drives are for us. So perhaps the colonists left Kobol on very primitive space ships. After all, it seems Kobol isn’t really that far from the 12 colonies.

    The other thing is, just because we don’t SEE the colonials using ships in the all too brief glimpses of Caprica we got in the miniseries doesn’t mean they don’t use them. But I’m sure someone’s mentioned that already and given you craaaaaaap for it, so I won’t.

    Sorry if I’m being redundant.

  41. Armando says:

    Making it through the podcast, slowly, two things come up so far:

    1. You guys should have your own morning drive time talk show on the radio.

    2. The Venture Bros. rules!

  42. Nick says:

    Radio Picon – Back to your question on why 2 rounds at close range don’t kill Adama but 1 round kills Boomer within seconds. I made a mental note of that too when it happened. I think the actual answer to this question is that in both instances they used “Hollywood Rounds” These are special bullets that once entering the body will proceed in a destructive path either hitting or missing vital organs as dictated by the script.

    Grand Puba- As to your “foundation theory” This is very close to things I have said in the past so I definately think you are on to something. I take it a step further to say that Adama is the last cylon. I also think that Galactica escaping and their entire journey to Kobol was something that the Cylons meant to happen. They wanted Galactica find Kobol and they want them to find Earth. The events in the “Eye of Jupiter” show us that the history of the humans and the Cylons stretch back thousands of years… likely as far back as the times of Pythia.
    .

  43. Hybrid Master says:

    Ok, just have to say, after just starting the podcast – the opening CR Part II Heston bit was so funny I almost had to pull my car over to the side of the road. I was laughing so hard I thought I was going to puke. OMG – please, never stop – NEVER STOP!!!

    Also, big thanks to really exploring the boat issue – yes, possible holes – AND I would like to add, the amount of detail that went into that ship required a lot of knowledge about how boats of yore would have operated – not like just making a mythological ship or recreating something like Noah’s Ark.

    Audra – please, never stop singing – I want a Cylon bo-dy……

  44. Mike P says:

    Stroogie — Thanks for recommending “Pottercast.” I enjoyed listening to their recent live episode. I would never have guessed that Harry Potter turned out to be the final Cylon, though… WHOOPS! 😉

    Seriously, though, Sean, Chuck and Audra should have a “live” podcast sometime, in front of an audience. It would be very cool. How many people are coming to your Dallas meet-up? Maybe do it then — not quite a huge audience, maybe, but record from the bar, include the meet-up participants in that week’s discussion….? Just a thought.

  45. Stroogie says:

    Actually, Mike, I was quoting Kappa. But you’re welcome anyway. And yeah, I chime in for the live podcast idea for the GWC! Maybe the Theory of Everything ‘cast?

    Harry as the Final Cylon? No wonder Voldemort can’t seem to kill him. Never use a horcrux when a tub of goo will do.

  46. Stroogie says:

    P.S. Is anyone else getting strange bold type in the last few posts on this thread? Or is it just a quirk on my computer?

  47. Pike says:

    Stroogie, not me (safari on tiger)

  48. Armando says:

    No bold here. You’re coming through just fine, Stroogie. Your computer must be reaching that first evolutinary step into cylonhood. Watch out. Today it prints in bold, tomorrow it’ll look like a centurion, in a week it might look like Tricia Helfer.

    That doesn’t sound so bad, come to think of it. 🙂

  49. writch says:

    I got the bold too, Stroogie (Firefox on Windows XP)
    .

  50. writch says:

    BTW, the bold on mine starts from Puba’s Title on his 2nd (re)post:
    http://galacticawatercooler.com/2007/07/29/gwc-podcast-56/#comment-26281
    So I think he forgot (or some side-effect of the posting) stripped a closing tag and it’s just an echo of his shouting 😉

  51. BSG-Minnesotia says:

    My thoughts on the whole sailing ship vs. starship is this. If you come to a whole new world far far from where you came from, you have no infrastructure, no FTL factories, no mines, no refineries. It’s actually a very real problem that futurists have mulled over concerning interplanetary (or interstellar) colonization. That means that even if you are a star-faring culture, its likely that you won’t be won’t be one again for awhile. So, you would likely use “old” tech, like wood and cloth for sails, until a few generations go by before stuff is in place for neat stuff like Vipers and Caprica Six. In other words, you cannot just recreate the industrial revolution right away on a virgin planet. You’ve gonna have to sorta run..whats that game?…Civilization for awhile first. Hence; clipper ship models (had to get the large quantities of THAT to the new factory HERE)…and more subtly (and interestingly…if ya ask me) FTL starships that seem kinda not futuristic.

    Minnesotia Actual

  52. gafra says:

    I can’t believe noone has made the link yet!

    With all of the references to Douglas Adams Hitchhiker series, noone has borought up that there were TALKING TOASTERS in the series and novels!

    My Gods…that’s the true Cylon God! It’s a talking toaster!

    Wait a minute, there was one on Red Dwarf as well! the 13th Cylon is a TOASTER!

    http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=14496

  53. Stroogie says:

    BSG-M,
    That’s what I’ve been thinking. I liken it to some of the early American colonists who came over from Europe. They barely survived the boat trip, and once winter hit, they got whittled down pretty far. Some didn’t even make it, and the others took a while to rebuild. The 12 Colonies would just be a more extreme example, with FTL technology being an even bigger hurdle to jump over once you’ve crashed and been stranded far from home with little resources.

    P.S. Thanks everyone for confirming my “bold” problems. Armando, every time I restart my computer, it gives me a warning saying it almost saw God this time. Should I be worried?

  54. Armando says:

    “P.S. Thanks everyone for confirming my “bold” problems. Armando, every time I restart my computer, it gives me a warning saying it almost saw God this time. Should I be worried?”

    Damn! That means it’s turning into Leoben. Wipe its hard drive, ASAP! 😉

  55. The Fair Melissa says:

    To help “settle” the Half Baked/Coming to America “frak you” debate – Half Baked was released in 1998 and Coming to America was released in 1988. Jon Stewart was in Half Baked, as was Willie Nelson, Janeane Garafalo, Steven Wright, Snoop Dogg and other famous “baker” boys and girls.

    The “frak you” line is used in both, but slightly different. In CtoA, it’s “frak you, frak you, frak you, who’s next?” which is sooo not the same as the “frak you, frak you, frak you, you’re cool, and frak you I’m out” from HB.

  56. Chuck says:

    Melissa: You rock. I should’ve known that, too. That’s me, though — get the pop culture, forget everything of value. Thankfully the “coolest” is around to pick up the pieces.

  57. Phil says:

    BSG-M and Stroogie make good points, and we saw a similar thing happening on New Caprica. Laura was going to make a log cabin for instance. However, the reliance on more primitive forms of technology does not explain such a devolution of society such that their historical record gets relegated to myth. The original American colonists had to make do as best they could probably relying on more basic technology, but we still have a very reasonable historical record of those events (then again the parallel isn’t perfect, because they weren’t complete cut off from their original culture in Europe).

  58. Armando says:

    “BSG-M and Stroogie make good points, and we saw a similar thing happening on New Caprica. Laura was going to make a log cabin for instance. However, the reliance on more primitive forms of technology does not explain such a devolution of society such that their historical record gets relegated to myth. The original American colonists had to make do as best they could probably relying on more basic technology, but we still have a very reasonable historical record of those events (then again the parallel isn’t perfect, because they weren’t complete cut off from their original culture in Europe). ”

    Indeed. Perhaps a more apt parallel would be with the ancient Minoans, about whom we know very little aside from the fact that they were a major nautical power in the ancient Mediterranean and that they were, supposedly, more technologically advanced than many of their neighbors.

    (Historians out there–am I thinking of the right civilization?)

  59. Max Peck says:

    I do believe the quarter bet is about to be claimed:

    Flying car?

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291889,00.html

    (still waiting to hear my “words that shall not be spoken” that I emailed in, starting to feel neglected…)

  60. Phoenix says:

    I was cracking up while driving and listening to the ‘cast. Especially “Charlton Heston” calling in.

    I’d be interested in a theory of everything podcast…but not now. I’d be more interested closer to Razor or right before the Season 4 premiere.

  61. Armando says:

    “(still waiting to hear my “words that shall not be spoken” that I emailed in, starting to feel neglected…) ”

    If It’s any consolation, Max, I actually wrote a three part canon setting the title that shall not be uttered. Seeing as how I don’t really have the equipment to record myself singing all three parts, and that I don’t really sing very well anyway, and that you can’t add attachments to the general email on here so that I could send the “triumvirate” the sheet music, I haven’t sent it along.

    I’m so lame.

  62. Armando says:

    Oh, and slightly off topic and probably redundant, but still cool, check this out:

    http://www.popoholic.com/2007/08/02/futurama-new-season-trailer/

  63. Audra says:

    gafra – Right on! Red Dwarf Talking Toaster: “Given that God is infinite, and given that the Universe is infinite… would you like a toasted tea cake?”

    Thank you Fair Melissa for the movie info! And – did Chuck call you the “coolest”?! 😉

  64. Timbuck says:

    Charlton Heston called in. He was Moses. We need James Callis to call in because he’s Jesus (well he poses like him–maybe he is a huge Bono fan?).

    Whoa! The Grand Puba is cool (but should probably get a day job). : )

    Mike P re: mini-skirts. They were hot then and is this world things tend to happen again. Now lets get 6 and D’Anna in mini-skirts!

    Someone should ask The Fair Melissa how many movies she’s rated on Netflix. She is Queen of All Movie Trivia. She hangs w me quoting original canon Star Wars and sometimes I amaze even myself…

    Audra: here is my virtual vote for ending the ship discussion. I’ve got your back! (ship=not-AWESOME anymore)

    I was listening to an NFL podcast by these 2 guys who also are always tangential. They get fan posts loving the tangents nore than the actual content. So keep the tangents coming. Punchy podcasts are also AWESOME.

  65. Armando says:

    “Someone should ask The Fair Melissa how many movies she’s rated on Netflix. She is Queen of All Movie Trivia. She hangs w me quoting original canon Star Wars and sometimes I amaze even myself…”

    That doesn’t sound so hard…

    😉

  66. The Fair Melissa says:

    Audra, I think we all know that you are the coolest…. I’m just experiencing a contact cool. 🙂

    Timbuck – just because you have a “real” job and I sit in front of my computer all day, don’t get mad at me that I kicked your ass in movie ratings. Seriously.

    Oh, and Armando? Nice.

  67. Radio Picon says:

    Grand Puba, I remember reading that RDM had allowed the 12 colonies to be considered 12 habitable planets orbiting the *same* star in homage to the original series…admittedly a very, very unlikely scenario astronomically, but hey we’re talking Hollywood here! I imagine that would have slowed the need for FTL development.
    We see in the miniseries that ships can make very long trips between locations without using FTL…like Roslin’s ship with captions like “5 hours from Caprica”. Maybe they can’t jump short distances like within a solar system…sort of like on Star Trek they rarely went to warp between two points in the same system…I remember an episode of DS9 (I think) where they registered shock when someone even suggested doing that.

    Speaking of Hollywood, Nick I love your idea of “hollywood rounds” hahaha!

  68. Phil says:

    The real reason Adama survived was because of how bad a shot Boomer is. First off she’s a cylon. Second, Boomer had trouble even hitting herself from VERY close range. Therefore, the advantage is to Cally.

  69. Armando says:

    “Oh, and Armando? Nice.”

    You like that? 🙂

  70. Armando says:

    “Grand Puba, I remember reading that RDM had allowed the 12 colonies to be considered 12 habitable planets orbiting the *same* star in homage to the original series…admittedly a very, very unlikely scenario astronomically, but hey we’re talking Hollywood here! I imagine that would have slowed the need for FTL development.
    We see in the miniseries that ships can make very long trips between locations without using FTL…like Roslin’s ship with captions like “5 hours from Caprica”. Maybe they can’t jump short distances like within a solar system…sort of like on Star Trek they rarely went to warp between two points in the same system…I remember an episode of DS9 (I think) where they registered shock when someone even suggested doing that.”

    Actually, I thought that when the Galactica made the jump in the miniseries it was the first time anyone had executed an FTL jump in quite some time. At least that’s the implication I drew from it (and my season one set is with my mother-in-law so I can’t put the DVD in the player and check. So if anyone can help, I’d appreciate it).

  71. Phil says:

    Armando-

    I was kind of left with that impression too, but I then assumed that it was just the first time in very long time that Galactica itself had made an FTL jump. Other ships that were more active would have likely made jumps more recently (especially given how reliable the FTLs have proven to be throughout the series). It was true however, that the fleet made the first plotted jump to beyond the “Red Line”. It was never clear to me though if the Red Line was the farthest jump any one had made from any given point, of if the Red Line was the farthest anyone had ever been from the Colonies.

  72. The Fair Melissa says:

    Armando – as Chuck would say, that was awesome.

  73. Armando says:

    That’s a good point, Phil. I didn’t think that, most likely, it’s the Galactica itself that hadn’t made an FTL jump for a long time. Makes sense.

    And thank you, Melissa. I’ve pretty much got the entire original SW trilogy memorized (and parts of the prequels) so any time you and Timbuck want to have a showdown, bring it on. I prefer a good fight to all this sneaking around. 😉

    (Sometimes I am amazed, simply amazed that I ever found a woman to marry me! Because I am such a dork.)

  74. The Alpaca Herder says:

    Phil & Armando — Jumping the Red Line, according to deleted scenes in Pegasus, refers to jumping past the safe limit for jumping. As far as I have understood this it is akin to the various times in SG-1 where various ships run their engines at 125%-130% rated maximum. The Red Line is the limit after which stellar drift and other stuff creeps into every bit of navigating.

    As to the line in the mini where Tigh asked Adama about doing a jump with it having been twenty years…I interpreted that as taking a car up to highway speeds after never getting above 25 MPH for quite some time. Even though it theoretically possible the concern was would the vehicle rattle apart.

  75. Pike says:

    Alpaca, exactly right. The “Red Line” is a technical limitation (according to the RDM commentaries.) The idea is that calculating jumps becomes more difficult the longer out you are trying to jump, because the odds that something is there that you weren’t expecting to be there increases. To extend his analogy, it’s like how far you’re willing to drive at highway speeds with your eyes closed.

    Pike’s bellyaching moment: a further conceit is that the cylons can jump farther because they have better computation. Which makes sense until you realize that computation isn’t a factor. Space is WAY more empty than it isn’t. The defining factor would be observation, and it would be simple to jump to a point close, but still way empty, to make the much simpler observations for a final approach.

  76. Phil says:

    Pike-

    Interesting point, but I’m not sure I completely get it. Wouldn’t the problem with an FTL drive be that you can’t actually observe the point you are jumping to? The light (which means information) from the point you’re jumping to will only be traveling at light speed (of course). So to complete an FTL jump you will have to compute the conditions at the target point, which is in essence predicting the future from your original point. [This makes sense in my head if not on the post, but I’ll let it fly anyway.]

  77. Pike says:

    Phil, right. My point was that the hard part would be getting accurate information in the first place. That wouldn’t be a computation problem. Now that I think about it, though, calculating out the various orbits and trajectories to predict where they are “now” would be an increasing computation burden the further away you’re looking/jumping. It could be considerable.

    Mind you, this is all just fan wankery.

  78. Phil says:

    Yes, there’s a fine line between a thought experiment and mental masturbation…

  79. zigdon says:

    I’m not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but at one of the BSG panels at Comic-con Lucy Lawless said she *is* back at some point at season 4. I think she said around episode 8 or 9?

    Z

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

Comment via Facebook

 

GWC Projects

GWC on Facebook