GWC Re-Watch Frak Party: Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down

It’s weekten of our planned off-season re-watch of the entire “re-imagined” BSG canon, and it’s time to move on to the season one episode “Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down.” So why not join us here for the GWC online frak party? There’s room for everyone, though you’ll have to bring your own snacks…

Feel free to jump in at any point with your comments on this week’s episode as the re-watch is by definition spoiler free. We’ll be in and out, but we’ll definitely take a look at your comments before we start next week’s podcast.

See you here all week!

40 Responses to "GWC Re-Watch Frak Party: Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down"
  1. The 13th Cylon says:

    Yay! This is my all time favorite BSG episode. Everything about it is just absurd for the series. It’s a silly episode and it introduces one of the best characters in the series. I love how the writers really lead you to believe Ellen is a Cylon from the start and they don’t let up for a long time. It’s a crazy one, but somehow it works. I wish we’d get another one like this before episode 422 rolls around, but I doubt it.

    Also, it’s the first of two episodes EJO directed, with the second being “Taking a Break from All Your Worries”. I think he did a wonderful job on both of them.

  2. Tanu says:

    so this is the other episode Olmos directed. That’s awesome, this was the first full episode of BSG i ever watched and what a great intro to the series it was. Starbuck walking in on Baltar while *cough* is one of the funniest moments in the series.

  3. Steviespin says:

    Hey there.

    Haven’t posted in a bit. Just moved to the big apple for a contract this summer and there’s some travel involved, including Texas – what sort of related events are there? frak party type things?

    Love to know more! thx!
    stevie spin
    http://www.dreamwick.ca

  4. Mike P says:

    Well, I still dislike this episode — the disparity in tone between the first and second halves is too great for my liking (swinging from foreboding to slapstick), and I think just about everyone is way out of character in the final scene — but I guess I don’t dislike it as much as I remembered disliking it.

    I thought the exchange between Adama and Tigh — “Because you’re my friend,” etc. — took on added poignancy if Tigh is indeed a Cylon. And I thought maybe there were some hints that Ellen actually was — e.g., she knew before she should have that Cylons looked like humans. I wondered if maybe the comedy was to distract us from letting this sink in — it is mentioned at the dinner party, but then quickly we move on.

  5. Audra says:

    The dinner party scene is one of my all-time favorite scenes from BSG. I love Lee’s desparate attempts to maintain his dignity, but most of all the look that Roslin gives Ellen when Ellen leaves the room, LOL!! That was when I started to love Roslin, I think.

    Steviespin, wb! No concrete plans yet but since GWC is based in the Dallas area, we put out feelers to see if anyone’s interested in a meetup. So far a couple people have expressed interest.

  6. Evenspeed says:

    Hey guys, I thought I would finally start posting since your podcast is the only thing keeping me sane at work. The major thing I remember taking from this episodes when I first saw it was the realization that Balitar not quite Evil, but just plain lazy.

  7. Leon Kensington says:

    Hi guys,

    Leon from AZ in BC for vacation!

    I recently found out that in Vancouver’s Stanley Park a “movie or TV show is being filmed” upon inquiring further I found it was/is a scifi show. Being as that it looks awful like Kobol, I think we have have some bsg!

    (Chuck, I’m not sure this belongs here but I wanted it noticed so if you can or feel it is needed, move this post. thx.)

  8. Mike Brown says:

    I think this episode is great. I’m glad that all the episodes aren’t drawing room one-acts, but I think when you have as much family dynamic set up as in BSG, Lee, his dad, his dead brother’s fiance, Bill and Tigh’s close relationship and shared history, including that with Ellen, you have to eventually deal with it. If you didn’t have this episode, Tigh and Ellen’s relationship could easily by, “Why are those two together?” But the reason they’re together is because she, however briefly, makes him happy. When are some other times we see Saul laughing and having a good time? If you don’t have this episode, Lee and Bill never have to do any family stuff like I have to do, uncomfortably hanging out with people you don’t really like (well, I got the sense that Lee and Bill don’t like Ellen). Oh, and yes, Starbucks’ reaction to Balter’s pantsless antics was perfect.

  9. Browncoat_Bryan says:

    I loved this episode. Seeing Baltar try to explain away his predicament (giving the saying “caught with your pants down” a literal meaning) was priceless.

  10. Stroogie says:

    This was never one of my favorite episodes, aside from the great character development it gave to Tigh, and the introduction of Ellen. But I re-watched it with some friends the other day, and we were all laughing so hard I had to notch up my appreciation of it a little. I still think the tone is wrong for BSG overall, but I don’t blame Eddie. He takes what he’s given and goes balls-to-the-wall with it every time, and that’s what makes him a great actor.

    And yeah, the moment when Roslin hands the liquor bottle to Ellen over her shoulder as she leaves is one of MM’s shining moments.

  11. Nick says:

    I was with you Mike. I hated this episode the first time I saw it. Everything about it seemed out of whack with the rest of the series. The ending just drove me up the wall. If anything screamed CYLON, Elen’s introduction was it and I really disliked Ellen as a character because of the way they handled it in this episode. However.. as time wore on Ellen definately grew on me as a characer and I was very dissapointed to see her go. Rewatching this episode with the knowledge of what is to come enables me to enjoy it far more than when it originally aired. It does have a couple of the funniest scenes through the entire series.

  12. Tony says:

    I actually quite enjoy this episode, it reminds me of the occasional comedy episode Moore used to write on DS9. A very calm-before-the-storm kind of episode. As a side note, I would like the podcast to be less funny, I started laughing out loud while at the gym last night listening to Sunday’s podcast and had quite a few people looking in my direction. Now I know what Baltar feels when HeadSix is talking to him in presence of other people, it’s like having a HeadChuck, a HeadSean and a HeadAudra…

  13. adoracion says:

    i remember the first time i watched this episode, it totally threw me off. i had already mentally prepared myself to believe that every BSG ep was dark and mysterious, so i went into this one completely losing the humor, and wondering if in fact Ellen (or Bill Adama) might be a cylon. d’oh! stoopid, stoopid, stoopid!

    firstly, upon rewatch–can i just shout to the gods how much i miss BILLY? i sooooo miss Billy and Dualla together. i believe they had some real chemistry! even when he was whore-ing himself out in this episode! as HOT (there goes that word again!) as Dualla AND Lee are, they have NO CHEMISTRY together.

    secondly–why the heck wasn’t this thing with Ellen ever explored or continued? i mean really, she HAS TO BE A CYLON. she had known the cylons looked like humans…. she mysteriously showed up in a hospital bed… yadda yadda yadda. i think the ball was dropped on this one.

    ugh, there i go gettin all serious again.

    i think MikeBrown and Nick summed it up pretty well. thanks again, GWC!!

  14. Mike P says:

    adoracion — Given Tigh’s question “What about Ellen?” in “Crossroads II,” there may yet be a revisiting of Ellen’s Cylon-or-not status. I personally never cared for the character, so I rather hope she’s gone for good… but one never knows…

  15. LVogt says:

    I am way behind and just heard comments about Sgt Hadrian. You all completely missed the point. She was on a VERY serious investigation. She was immediately lied to. She managed to focus in on the Chief who was covering for Boomer WHO WAS GUILTY! And when Hadrian was almost there Adama subverted the process for personal feelings and screwed the investigation so they didn’t catch Boomer who went on to shoot Adama.

    The brilliance is in how the writers turned the table on expectations to make the good guy mess up the investigation. You just missed it. I was furious with Adama when he stopped the tribunal. It was wrong. Hadrian was acting like a pro. Adama didn’t folow the law and the investigation failed.

  16. suzanne says:

    how about billy speaking his mind to roslin at the beginning of the episode…and the scene with dee, it is so funny to see him “pump dee for info”. this is one of his best episodes.
    also, ellen manages to express so much without saying anything in the scene where she arrives on galactica. i really loved her character. she was a great foil to many of the characters, and i am hoping we see her again in season 4.
    i was wondering if a cylon put her abord that -last flight out- maybe another brother cavil?

  17. Chuck says:

    LVogt: I respect your opinion, but I disagree re:Hadrian. While I can see the justification for her concern in terms of the chief lying to her, I think she’d exceeded the purview of her mandate far before Adama shut down the investigation. If she’d simply pursued the chief diligently — without allowing her own emotional desire for more and more power to get in the way — I’d have been all for her, and I don’t believe Adama would have acted as he did. Only after she began seeing conspiracy in every corner of Galactica did he finally give in.

    I believe that if Adama hadn’t stepped in, she wouldn’t have simply exposed the chief’s lies (and therefore Sharon) and prevented the assassination. She’d have torn through the entire Colonial brass ripping every single person a new one based on her own shaky conspiracy theory. What point would that have served?

    My point: the minute she stopped connecting one lie to another in a proper investigative fashion (based on what did happen and began seeking to force unrelated information from others based solely on what she thinks could have happened, she was out of line and was abusing her power. The interesting question to me, though, is “Why?” Did she become addicted to exercising her (temporary) powers — I think she did — or was she just extremely paranoid?

  18. Timbuck says:

    This is not one of my favorite episodes. Overall the best part is Baltar having people change who’s test is being run. He looks so confused and he already HATES doing that.

    The dinner party was decent but I knew Ellen was going for Lee before it happened. Very “teen comedy”. I hate the fact that Tigh starts to change by the end of the episode. You can just see his willpower sucked out of him. No more clear decision making for him until New Caprica. And Ellen knows how that ends.

    This episode is mostly filler w a trace of plot. They chose to introduce Ellen in a mysterious way which was cool but I doubt she is a final 5. PLEASE!

    We all know it’s Boxey.

  19. Fieri says:

    First time-poster, long-time (the whole time, actually) listener.

    Chuck, you said “she began seeing conspiracy in every corner of Galactica” as a negative toward Hadrian’s performance as investigator. But…isn’t that the job of an investigator? Unless she assumes that every member of Galactica is a murderer, she’s not doing her job. Her job is to make sure everyone has an alibi and further investigate those wiht shaky alibis.

    “Innocent until proven guilty” is the mantra of jury/judge, NOT the prosecutor. The prosecutor MUST assume that all “shaky conspiracy theories” are possible.

    And besides, not only has Hadrian been vindicated many times over, it’s been shown that the conspiracy goes up all the way to the top.

  20. Mike P says:

    The changing back and forth of whose test is being run in Baltar’s Patented Olde Tyme Cylon Detector (TM) reminded me of nothing so much as that scene in the old “Trek” episode “Amok Time,” where the Enterprise’s course gets switched back and forth from Vulcan to the-planet-of-the-week (ok, ok, it’s Altair IV — I’m a hopeless geek), and Chekov makes his crack about “I think I’m going to get spacesick.” I thought Callis has a little bit of Chekov in him in that moment. But that’s just me, watching BSG through Trekkie-colored lenses. 🙂

  21. Pike says:

    Everyone’s wrong but me!

    Hadrian was on the right path. If everyone was honest, she’d have uncovered the problem. HOWEVER, nobody was honest, and she fixated on the wrong (by one degree, pretty close!) person.

    Ultimately, it was the Chief who was the problem. He had all the info to figure out that Boomer was the cluprit. In a very human moment, he went with his heart and not his head. (Heck, I’ve known people in situations almost as fraked as that who did the same thing.) Everyone was doing what they thought was the right thing ™. It ended with an innocent guy in the brig. And Tyrol knowing that. And the Cylon agent shooting the old man.

    Ultimately, it’s about our human flaws.

  22. Pike says:

    “Culprit” not “Cluprit”.

    I like to think that I was thinking “Clue Pit.”

  23. Chuck says:

    Fieri: Welcome! To clarify: When Hadrian decided to switch from pursuing the question of how the Cylon obtained access to the weapons locker to pursuing a general indictment of Adama’s leadership, she crossed the line. To put it in real (if a decade old) terms, it’d be like a court tasked with ruling on the ins and outs of a run-of-the-mill divorce case questioning and convicting Bill Clinton for offering poor moral leadership.

    There are also other indicators that Hadrian sought more than to just “do her job:”

    When interviewing the chief, she says, “By invoking the 23rd article at this time, the tribunal will look o­n this as further evidence of your guilt, so I will ask you o­ne last time: Who were you with at the time of the bombing, and was this person a Cylon agent?” The Colonial 23rd article is, we’d assume, somewhat analogous to the 5th amendment. Does a person who’s righteously doing her job threaten an interviewee by suggesting that taking the 5th makes them “seem guilty” to others?

    Also, why would Hadrian seek to connect Adama to the Cylon bombing via his withholding the fact that Cylons can appear human? This is clearly a decision well within the responsibilities of his rank and position — as was his decision on how to deal with the Chief and Sharon’s relationship.

    And speaking of that relationship, neither the Chief nor Adama was aware that Sharon was a Cylon, yet by this point in the episode, Hadrian has already made up her mind — with absolutely no supporting evidence — that the Chief is, in her words, “a Cylon collaborator.” A dupe, certainly. But to be a “collaborator” he has to do more than cover for his most recent nookie.

    Again, I think the really interesting question here is, “Why did she run amok?” Was she interested in cutting down the military’s role in the Colonial fleet, subjugating them further to the civilian powers-that-be? Or was she paranoid, imagining Adama as a “Cylon collaboraor,” too? Or was she simply too inexperienced and lacking in wisdom to see the difference between “a collaborator” and “someone who’s negligent.”

    At any rate, it’s fun to have this discussion. I’ve wanted to have this discussion for a while, but it just hasn’t come up. It’s good to see you posting, and I hope to see you again here soon!

  24. BernUnit says:

    One of my favorite episodes!

    What’s most interesting to me is Ellen’s immediate poisonous effect on Tigh. She’s barely off of the Raptor and Tigh gets drunk and acts like an ass. He is truly addicted to her.

    But no one has mentioned Helo! Speaking of someone being duped, Helo’s life is in the hands of a renegade Cylon. A very hot, sexy Cylon. EJO has said recently since the end of Season 3 that he believes that Sharon Agathon crossed over because of the love for her child and the fear that bad things would happen to it with the Cylons, but this episode and Flesh and Bone seem to indicate that she truly fell for Helo first, and didn’t realize she was pregnant until after that, during the Hand of God.

    And Timbuck, you’re absolutely right – the best part of the episode is Baltar being ordered to do different samples, back and forth. It’s hilarious.

  25. TimH says:

    Several posters have been mentioning the issue of Ellen knowing about the Cylons looking like humans. Watching this episode, the accusation didn’t make any sense to me. The announcement was made 2 episodes back. Ellen was only recently awake, but she’d be around Nurses, doctors, etc. Plenty of people who could have mentioned the news. Why is it suspicous to know something that was recently announced to the fleet?

    Also, I’m a little behind on the podcast. I just heard discussion of Litmus (podcast #44), and in it the comment is made that it is a desperate attempt to kill Adama. I don’t think it was meant for Adama, he just pushed the button because he was caught. Starbuck’s questions to Baltar were likely right, that the bomb was meant for his lab. He was making a cylon detector afterall. And even though the bomb didn’t make it there, the fear it instilled is part of the reason(along with 6’s comments) that he decides not to tell anyone their real test results. That fear was as effective as a bomb going off in the lab.

    Speaking of the detector, this is a bit picky but… It is implied that it works. Boomer’s red test, etc. Wouldn’t Baltar have tested himself in the process of building the machine? Later he spends a lot of time wondering if he is a Cylon, but he should already have that answer.

  26. TimH says:

    Sorry, another Litmus issue. Audra complains about the light levels on the planet. The planet had been nuked many times. If you’ve ever read about Tunguska, they said you could read outside at midnight for months afterward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event). And that was just one explosion.

  27. Phoenix says:

    *Fist pump* ELLEN! I hated her at first, but now I kind of miss her. So great to see her introduction again.

    I also love the opera music at the beginning. Bear McCreary wrote “Battlestar Operatica,” sung in Italian. Here are the lyrics:

    Woe upon your Cylon heart
    There’s a toaster in your head
    And it wears high heels

    Number Six calls to you
    The Cylon Detector beckons
    Your girlfriend is a toaster

    Woe upon your Cylon heart
    Alas, disgrace! Alas, sadness and
    misery!

    The toaster has a pretty red dress
    Red like its glowing spine
    Number Six whispers
    By Your Command

  28. Hybrid Master says:

    OK, I just have to jump in here on the it-will-never-be-put-to-rest issue of Sgt. Hadrian. Comparing the 23rd to the 5th might just be making a false comparison – we don’t know enough about thier codes of law to know if invoking the 23rd didn’t also include automatically invoke suspicion. The law or right may in fact be, “any colonial citizen who feels the need to invoke this article will be seen as someone who is hiding something…” use at your own risk….There’s just so much we don’t know about their legal system – think about the fact that there is NO separation of church and state….At any rate, just wanted to throw my two cents in there, and I just can’t, CAN’T get past the fact that the Chief and others were lying, and we’re talking about the remnants of a civilization that just got innihilated becasue of the cylons – so if there’s some red flags, they’re going to be as big as football fields. Did she go to far? I liken the situation to when Pres. Roslin made abortion illegal – not what anyone wanted to do, but what seemed required for the survival of the species…

    Also have to say that I hated this episode when I saw it first, and pretty much everytime Ellen was on screen. Liked it a little better in the re-watch – knowing what we know now. I just find that the Ellen character is just too much of a stereotypical woman grabbing for power using sex as her only weapon kind of thing. She’s just too predicatable. What does she do in that room all day? My personal combination most hated Ellen moment/favorite Ellen moment came when she was found out on New Caprica and was talking with Saul before he killed her, ….”I got him to notice me in the way that men notice me,” just as I was about to throw my empty, wadded up microwave popcorn bag at the screen (I first saw it during hte BSG marathon that SciFi held before the beginning of season 3.5 and had been on the couch for hours….) Saul kills her, and the relief that flooded my body far surpassed my previous irritation.

    Please don’t bring her back!!!! Yes she makes Saul laugh and seems to bring him great joy, but she would never have been able to handle the Tigh-clops that has evolved….

  29. Chuck says:

    Hybrid:

    Not to be too picky here, but in Litmus Roslin asks Adama, “What about this other man, your Chief Tyrol ? He took the 23rd. What is that about, do you think?” Adama responds, “It’s his right. The courts have never held that invoking the right to remain silent can be used as evidence of guilt.”

    Re: Ellen. I hated Ellen at first, but I came to like her a lot. Well, I liked *her character* a lot and how it fit into the scheme of things. I definitely wouldn’t want to be involved with her in any way if I were magically transported to the world of BSG. I’d want to stay as far away as possible and not try not to get any on me. But as a character she’s awesome, and I’d love to see her again — even as a Cylon.

  30. Hybrid Master says:

    Good catch Chuck! You have got that episode DOWN!!!!

    If I were magically transported to the BSG world I would join the Baltar cult. Or, just anything that is as far away from the tillium mining processing ship as possible….

  31. Mike P says:

    HybridMaster writes: “think about the fact that there is NO separation of church and state” in the BSG universe.

    Is this actually so, though? For example, is the woman prophet (name is escaping me — Alosha?) advising Roslin in an official, cabinet-like capacity, or more along the lines of Billy Graham being the erstwhile pastor to the presidents? And aren’t Roslin’s visions, on which she based some policy decisions (e.g., let’s send Starbuck back home for Athena’s Arrow), just as easily — and by more people in the BSGverse — interpreted as drug-induced hallucinations? Certain characters notwithstanding (Starbuck, e.g.), my impression has been that the BSG universe by and large is “religious” in the sense that America is “religious” — i.e., we have a civil religion, with God’s name on the coins, but not many people are really invoking a deity any major faith tradition would recognize. In other words, the Lords of Kobol get a lot of lip service.

    Indeed, isn’t that one of the major complaints the Cylons have against the humans — that they don’t even worship their false gods properly?

    Maybe I took your comment wrong, HybridMaster, but I read it as an assertion that the government of BSG is a theocracy, and I just don’t see that as the case. Thanks for furthering the discussion, though, and feel free to correct me if I am way off – base. It has been known to happen. 🙂

  32. Hybrid Master says:

    Good points MIke P.! I’m not saying what’s occurring is a theocracy, but have you ever heard of any other religion besides in the Lords of Kobol? I would also argue that, while the US and most western governments are not theocracies, the basis for their system of justice has very deep Judeo-Christian roots, hence the continued argument for keeping the symbol of the 10 Commandments in US court houses (a big issue here in the heart of liberal-minded America in Idaho). I’ve never heard anyone say there is a separation – Chuck will prove me wrong with some awesome lines from the show I hope 🙂 – so I can’t just assume that this civilization has gone through a process like we have to determine that this is the “best” way to govern a society.

    Interestingly, or not so depending on your opinion of the BSG books that have come out based on the reimagined series, in the book Sagitarius is Bleeding, there is a group who does not beleive in the same gods, are human, and who are shunned and marginalized by the rest of the fleet. While this is never alluded to of course in the TV series, it did give me pause and make me look at the assumptions I myself was holding about these people, and one was that there were a variety of religious beliefs, when in fact all I had been presented with was the Lords of Kobol/human belief system, and the One True God/Cylon belief system. Even the colonies that are more deeply religious and are looked down upon, like the Sagitarians (sp?), still believe in the same system everyone else does or doesn’t.

    Less of a diversity would also lead to less demand for removal of one particular system from the governing structure – except, of course, by those who flat out don’t believe. OMG – wait wait wait – remember the scene, can’t remember the episode, when Six is quoting scripture to Gaius in his fantasy/old house on Caprica – “all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again,” and he says something like – I haven’t read that since sixth grade, or that all sixth graders know that, something that alluded to the idea that it was part of everyone’s upbringing or taught in school.

    So, I guess for me, there are just a lot of unanswered questions, and while I agree with almost everything you say, there is also this nagging part of my brain that just says, hey, your extrapolating based on what you know to be true here on this Earth…..

    Quick note for all of those who might feel compelled to read Sagitarius is Bleeding – Boxy plays a VERY prominent role in the book ….

  33. Hybrid Master says:

    One quick clarification about my last post – when I say “hey, you’re just extrapolating blah blah blah….” I’m talking to myself there! No rudeness or anything intended to anyone!!!!

    I love you guys!

    HM

  34. The 13th Cylon says:

    Check this awesome gesture by RDM & Co. This was mentioned in one of his podcasts and he finally got the chance to do it a few days ago. Long story short, this person was a fan of the show and posted on the SciFi boards and was killed in a car accident (full story on page 3 of the thread), so her picture was added right under Kat and Starbuck’s.

    http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2277169&st=0

  35. Audra says:

    Evenspeed, Fieri, and others – it’s great to see new posters here. It’s a good feeling when people who listen decide to share their voices here in the fray. Welcome!

    Leon Kensington – Thanks for the tip on the filming location! If I were there I’d probably be sneaking around in a trenchcoat trying to get photos. (The kind of trenchcoat a spy wears, not a flasher, hehe).

    Tony: *echo-ey voice* This is your HeadAudra speaking…resistance to laughter is futile…

    adoracion – You know, very few people have said this, but I completely agree that there’s no real chemistry between Dee and Lee. At least not that I can sense watching them together.

    TimH – Thanks for the info! I was complaining about the “day for night” filming technique they used to show Helo sneaking around Caprica at night. It just wasn’t very realistic. But I do love the day-glo orange.

    Phoenix – That’s awesome!!

    13th – Great link, thanks. What a cool thing to do for a fan.

  36. Dag2000 says:

    Sorry for going OT, but I was just looking at the Wikipedia Cylon entry and realizing the Sharon is number 8. Which is higher than 7. And since D’Anna is number 3, the “final five” must fall in amongst the numbering of the other models, not before or after. Another possibility is that there is another unrevealed regualar type skinjob model that was boxed – this would account for the numbering discrepancy but not disturb the apparent revelation of the “galactica four” as some special kind of cylon. They don’t discuss the boxed one or the other four, but for different reasons.

  37. Mike P says:

    Hey, HM, thanks for the thoughtful response to my post. You’re quite right, we haven’t seen any real competitor to the worship of the Lords of Kobol, so maybe there is none — although you’re right that Baltar’s “sixth grade” line could be evidence that the main competitor is atheism/agnosticism. Interesting, I had not thought about the relative lack of diversity of religious belief among the BSGverse people.

    Where in Idaho are you? My brother-in-law is in Shelley.

  38. LVogt says:

    Interesting comments about Hadrian. I think the point of a powerful independent tribunal was not just to find someone to convict but to stop the problem. Adama was indeed lax with disipline, understandably perhaps but it was shown he was part of how this happened. Hadrian was charged with more than finding out who got in the arms locker. She was trying to save the ship from sabatoge and if Adama had to be embarassed, to bad. It wasn’t obver the line, it was essential. Adama got tougher as a result but he couldn’t handle the truth and did another foolish thing which aborted the investigation. The Chief was an unknowing conspirator but he was intentionally impeding an investigation to protect what turned out to be the guilty party. His motives were understandable but his actions were wrong. Hadrian couldn’t know his motives at the time but she was absolutley on the right path. Adama was just simply unwilling to accept personal criticism. I still feel Hadrian was the hero of the story.

  39. Hybrid Master says:

    Hey Mike, I’m in Hailey – near Sun Valley. 2 hours-ish from the great metropolis of Boise!

    Chuck – that was a great point you made during the podcast about the lack of fulfillment of the tribunal leading to the eventual shooting of Adama. I’ve always thought of that as one of the reasons why it shouldn’t have been stopped in the first place, but the end result, no matter what anyone’s view of it is, is that Sharon wasn’t found out and had the chance to take her shot at the big guy.

    I think the rewatch for next week, Hand of God, is going to be even more interesting given this thread on religious diversity – or lack thereof – in the BSG Universe……

  40. Stroogie says:

    Dag2000, someone on the BSG forums on the skiffy site once made a cool listing of possible Cylon number designations (I can’t remember where the post is now, but I remember enough of it). Basically, he pointed out that we don’t know who #1 is, or who #9-12 are. Like this:

    1) The Final Fifth?
    2) Cavil?
    3) De’Anna
    4) Simon?
    5) Doral
    6) Six
    7) Leoben?
    8) Sharon
    9) Tigh?
    10) Chief?
    11) Tori?
    12) Anders?

    I’m sure if the writers had known from the beginning that they were going to pursue this whole Final Five storyline, they would have left the first or last five numbers blank. But the way it is now, you could easily theorize that the remaining unknown Cylon was the first. Then the other Seven revolted to go “Kill All Humans”, and the First Cylon stuck around for the creation of the last four. He/She wiped him/herself from the Seven’s memories, and then the Five set about protecting the Humans and working to bring the Colonials and the Cylons together in peace, or something like that.

    Wish I could remember who originally posted that list. I’ll look for it.

    P.S. I also like the idea of Cavil as #2, making him closer than the others to the beginning of it all.

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