Weekly Presidential Approval Poll: March 19, 2007
Here’s the new weekly presidental approval poll. Remember — even if you voted last week, you’ll want to vote again on this poll as this is a weekly feature and the results will vary from week to week. Let your opinion be heard (for free)!
Do you approve or disapprove of the way Laura Roslin is handling her job as president?
- Approve: 54% (196 votes)
- Disapprove: 37% (134 votes)
- Unsure: 10% (35 votes)
Total Votes: 365
Note: This poll is closed. Don’t forget to vote in the current poll.
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FitSmart
I gotta give Roslin credit for her Cancer bit. Adama however, I wasn’t a fan of him tonight! You go head judge lady who stopped Adama’s “get the hell out Lee” speech. Does anyone else notice Adama is always stopping these things and trying to take command?
“I’m putting an end to this.”
It is nice to see the disaprove numbers climing…
Cavatar…exposing Roslin for what she is…
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
Chuck, Sean and Audra…
I know the votes are exact on the polling but…
when the numbers are added up after a week you guys should give the totals with a plus and minus of 5 percent or something…like in real life polling.
Cavatar
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
does Roslyn actually have Cancer again? or is it all a devilish ploy? hmmm…
She probably does. Lying to get Baltar convicted and then laughing it off would probably cause riots in the fleet.
Where can i make my donations to the BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is?
Laura showed us her human side this week.. way to go, STANDS WITH FISTS!
Ryan….LOL
You know I should start a web sight for that!!! We can fund raisers and the whole nine yards.
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
I voted approve again. She could have easily lied about the kamala and cancer. She showed real political gut by telling the truth. I am so mad at Lee right now though, Roslin is so right what happened to the Capt. Apollo we all thought we knew. Also why the hell is Lee still on galactica he just gave up his military commission. He either needs to get off the ship or go down and live in Helo-land with the rest of the civilians.
Matt makes a point about the quarters on Galactica…at least as soon as Dee left him. But then Dee did help in the failed attempt to steel the election.
Oh, and my dear friend Matt…it is time for that group debate so I can change your mind on her highness.
Cavatar.
Cavatar,
She has done what is necessary to survive. She is a great leader, yes she has her flaws but she is the best possible leader the fleet could have. Strong but practical, kind but tough, intelligent but determined; she has all the qualities of a great leader and she shows them day in and out.
Paid for by Earthlings for Laura Roslin
Kudos to Roslin this weekend! She was savvy enough to reveal her cancer returned at the best possible time to have the egg on the defense’s face. After all, Roslin is going to get us to Earth, being the Dying Leader (not sure why I feel the need to capitalize that lol) and all. The old saying goes, “what have you done for me lately?” Well, lately Baltar got a few thousand of us killed on Dagohbah while Roslin is actively working on finding Earth. Keep the curly hair, too.
Why hasn’t somebody airlocked that rabble??
After the revelation of cancer she has only lost one percent of support as the vote stands now, not to bad. Roslin show her political skill again.
Laura Roslin is the Winston Churchill of the colonial world.
Don’t you mean King Henry???
Cavatar,
No I do not; she is the Winston Churchill of the colonial world.
There are some things in common…Churchill smoked cigars, Queen Roslin smokes dope.
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
lol good one Cavatar. Roslin has been the strong leader to the fleet like Chruchill was to England. She held everything together right after the attacks and kept the civilian government running. She has a get relationship with the military establishment which in turn gives her great sway in controlling it.
Paid for by Earthlings For Roslin
Thank you, Thank you….
Maybe more of a Bill Clinton…you can say she never inhailed.
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
When Apollo resigned did anyone else notice that behind Adm. Adama was the wooden ship that he broke in “The Son Also Rises”?
maybe he fixed it so he did not have to pay for it???
“Paid for by fans to fix wood ships”
Artemekia,
Yep, they are usually out by about 3:30am
Wrong blog! My Bad! Gods I keep frakin up tonight.
3:30 central….
to be honest I usually get sick of waiting and take a shower…and then it is magically here.
Approval is now down to 55% that is a decline of 6 points from last week. I thought she would go up in approval this week I guess I was wrong. I thought the whole sympathy factor would drive her numbers up.
Matt…if they have a 5% +/- (to make it look real) it would still be about the same.
Cavatar,
True that.
You know it is funny….I cannot rememeber hearing about political parties on the show now that I think about it.
Re: Percentage Error
In a normal presidential approval poll they calculate the “margin of error” based on the sample size and the population size — i.e. the number of people they “randomly sample” (usually by phone) versus the number of eligible voters.
Our poll’s, well, not as scientific. Though one might make the argument that our sampling is somewhat random, we have no idea what the entire population is — so we can’t really calculate the number.
Wikipedia has a great bit on this for those of you who’d like to know more.
Still, I enjoy seeing the numbers!
Cavatar,
Yea, I know there was no mention of them during the Baltar Roslin election. I mean we don’t even know if there is a political opposition to the Roslin Administration. The closest we saw to opposition was the whole refinery strike thing.
Chuck…
I only mean te margin of error as a way of making the polls look more like ones we see on TV.
This poll is a damn disgrace.
Tell me about it only 53% approve when she was at 61% last week. She has cancer again isn’t there a little sympathy out there?
I dont think the poor people slaving away under her magisty heard that she had cancer.
Arktis/Matt: Don’t lose hope — the poll will be open for the entire week — plenty of time for things to change.
But I’m not sure it’s going to. She’s been doing some pretty unpopular things lately, and I’ll admit to voting “disapprove.” As I say in the ‘cast you’ll get shortly, I’m a big fan of Laura Roslin — and certainly of Mary McDonnell — but I don’t like the way Roslin’s been acting as president for some time.
Sadly, I can’t think of anyone better to step in either, but that doesn’t keep me away from the “disapprove” choice.
Cavatar,
Slaving away? Come on we only saw one example of this and the problem has been fixed by forming the new union! We don’t know what the conditions are in the rest of the fleet. We saw one ship, out of a fleet of over 40 I don’t think we can make such rash assumptions.
“the problem has been fixed by forming the new union!”
Really? I saw dirty slave laborers *gasp!* slaving away! The union really fixed that, didn’t it?
But you do bring up an interesting point: the show is woefully unbalanced. All we see 99% of the time are the antics of the privileged upper echelon. However, I doubt it was your intent to highlight that fact.
Arkis,
The workers on that ship never said they didn’t want to keep doing their job. They just said they wanted safer worker conditions, and some time off. The union will solve those problems thus the problem is fixed.
Thanks Arktis…
I do not think the problem is magically fixed. We also only see the upper class…I doubt we are seeing the rest of the filth the rag tag fleet is likly in.
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
Matt…
If it was only that easy…
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
Cavatar,
Will anything Roslin does make you happy? What is your solution to the refinery problem? I don’t see any other better ideas out there to fix the problem. What do want Roslin to do just shut down the ship so everyone can get a break and everything can be fixed? The decision she made was the only practically decision.
Matt,
The answer is yes and no.
The NO part because being a head of state is a job that is about more than just “what have you done for me lately.†She is not a news reporter where you are only as good as your last story. Some of these major issues were left to fester from way back when she was first president. And yes, this was back when they were all running for there lives; and then the issues were allowed to grow under Baltar. However, all this time later she seems to not even be aware of them.
The YES part would that she simply needs to remember what her job is. For right now it seems that she believes all she is required to do is get Baltar convicted of something and to keep the human race alive and ANY cost!
I will concede the great importance of keeping humanity alive is right up there with what is more/most important. However I will submit that first, if Earth exists then Roslin keeping the 40,000 or so alive is not the human race. Because there is a “shining planet known as Earth†with millions and millions of humans alive, in fact finding Earth and leading the Cylons to them could be the death of the human race.
I also submit that there are worse things than death. There could have been many things done to help and or even create an economy. I have said before, since the refinery jobs are so hideous and unwanted you need to give those people working there more perks and compensations then other jobs in the fleet. If you can increase the demand of people wanting the job, you will have more employees, a better rested work force and a work force with higher morale.
It seemed they were unable to fix the conditions on the ship for many reasons, one being they had such a low supply of refined fuel left. However if my ideas had already been in place, the production should have been higher and there would be a greater supply on hand. It would allow for the ship to be put off line to fix some of the issues.
Safe working conditions are just one of the human right issues that she has tossed aside under the preservation of the human race under Roslin. Would you rather die or live in Nazi Germany? How much is one supposed to give up in the name of life? There comes a time when you are existing for the sake of existing. That may be being alive but it just ain’t living.
Cavatar
Unsure, over here. At least until she gets that cancer claim substantiated.
X_O
“. . . It’s in the ship. . . “
FWIW, I voted ‘approve’, but I’m voting on her storyline, not here ‘presidential actions’.
Ryan and Cavatar (and Chuck and Sean and Audra (and Bob and Ted and Alice)) that’s actually an awesome idea. Put up a website to solicit funds for either Roslin or “Anybody but Roslin.” Running totals are reported on the site. In reality, the funds go to a cancer charity—that should be clear on the site (would have to be) but you’d get the choice to ‘cast your vote’ on the donation.
That is a really really great idea pike!!! I hope Chuck, Sean, and Audra go through with it.
Pike,
That is a great idea!!!
“Soliciting funds for BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
Matt….Did Pike want them or us to do the sight?
Cavatar,
I am really not sure, but I would want it to be on the Galactica Watercooler site so people can trust that their money is really going to charity.
This is killing me! I just don’t understand why last week her approval was at 61% but now it is down to 53% it makes no sense. The only thing that changed from last week is that she has cancer again, you would think that would drive her numbers up not down.
Cavatar and Matt, I was thinking of it as a GWC project since they already have a popular site. Or possibly have an existing charity do it and point to it (fewer headaches handling the money that way.)
Anyway, I sent it in with the Reader’s Theory form to make sure the crew see it (there are a *lot* of comments to wade through these days.)
Sometimes I doubt her commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Pike…
Yeah remember the old days when there were only a few comments and hardly any of us commenting…
Matt…
Maybe my campaign against the Queen…I mean President is actually working…hehe
I do think the additional web page ideas is a really cool idea.
Cavatar
Cavatar is completely right about the refinery ship. My thought that if Roslin has enough power and glout to my abortion illegal, and steal an election, and to organize a trial system when the whole fleet is in disarry, then she has the power to organize a mandatory supplement of workers from the entire fleet at the refinery ship. The people work hard, and it is a learned skill, but there sure looked like there was plenty of just good ole’ fashion labor going on over there that anyone who has the skill to drink whine from a glass could proably manage to do.
And as for the whole, only one sheet in the fleet thing. What about the prostitution going on at cloud nine, or the black market. Why has she continued to ignor these problem ships while doing press conferences. And really, what more useless profession in this circumstance than the press. All news could be communicated for 40,000 people by 3 people, and yet at every press conference there are 20 reporters. Why arn’t these people on the refinery ship.
Last of all, I might say that every time Roslin has done something for the disenfranchised it was at the repeated encouragement of someone else. Lee talked her into the notion of using the prisoners to do manual labor for freedom. Chief talked her into the union.
I also don’t buy the point that there is no one better out there. No one has had a chance. Luara got the job by succession, and even in the first vice-presidential election did a great job of securing her power. By the time the first real election came around everyone was so stuck by nessecity in doing there job that there were only two people who had the freedom to run. And they did. But I think there are proably many people who could do a better job than she.
Bottom line, in the crucnch moment she makes the decision that keeps everyone alive. The rest of the time she is barely competent. This makes me wonder, had the roles been reversed, and she had settled on New Caprica, and the gun was pointed at her head, and the choice presented itself, surrender and live, or fight the cylons and die, what would she have done? My quess is, if the human species has to survive, we surrender.
This is a Question for that McLaughlin Group Podcast Idea
Question 1: Is President Roslin’s political career terminal, or is there hope of resuscitating it?
Answer: Laura Roslin’s political career is alive, and to miscalculate her would be a very gave error. History is full of examples of leaders who have come from the most humble of beginnings, and have risen to meet the challenge posed by calamitous events. It’s very easy to be sitting there in your chairs and criticize Laura Roslin for the tough decisions that she has to make every day. What President Roslin has said is, we must survive, and we will survive. And we will do so through the values that has made our colonies great: courage, truth, justice, liberty, with a firm and deep resolve to make tomorrow better, not just for ourselves, but for our children.
P.S. These are not all my words; they are paraphrased quotes from the Show.
Ryan….
It is refreshing to know that there is another one out there who sees Roslin for what she is….
Matt…
That question was GREAT. Your answer maybe a bit flawed however.
Cavatar.
“Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.â€
Cavatar,
In my answer I was trying to give it the feel of political spin, so it sounded really like something you would hear on a political show.
Paid For By Earthling’s For Roslin
lol…
Matt…please don’t take it the wrong way.
I thought both the question and answer was really good. It felt like something I would hear on a potitical…when I said a bit flawed I was talking about how well you were spinning it. You did a great job, but I am on the other side.
I hope you were not offended and that I did not come off the worng way.
“Laura Roslin…the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
Matt…. I meant to say “on political show.”
sorry for the screw up there…just shows I am far from perfect.
Cavatar
Cavatar,
No problem, I never even thought of it as a personally anything. It’s all good. I am curious about what your answer to that question would be though.
Paid for by Earthling’s For Roslin
Cavatar,
I just wanted to share my favorite Roslin quote. I love the brutal honesty of it.
Baltar: What are you suggesting?
Roslin: I’m not suggesting anything Doctor. If I want to throw a baby out an airlock I’ll do it!
Matt,
I think there is much hope for resurrecting it, after all until she dies in office; who is to take the power away from her. We already have seen that Admiral Adama wants her to be the president. Also she expressed regret to Zarek that she did not go through with stealing the election as they were being haled off to the would be firing squad. What is to really stop her form doing it again? Someone told me that once you cross a line, it becomes easier and easier to cross it when you get to again and again. She tried to steel an election, then she used the military to get back in office, so what is next? Does she declare her self President for life?
I posted a thread about the Chief…saying if there is a free and open election he has a great chance given is position as Union leader to beat Roslin. But was it you who said that the Admiral would possibly not let him off his duties to run? Would he let his NCO beat his beloved school teacher?
However is there anything worth running for when her (really Baltar’s) term is up. Abortion is now illegal. There is a Union, but there leader is under Military rule. Baltar is having a tribunal, so I am guessing trail by jury is gone or was never there. Citizens, such as baby Hera (I hope that is how you spell her name) are kidnapped by the executive with no repercussions. When the President’s authority is challenged the person or persons are arrested and held until the executive gets what they want. Jobs are being passed down by generation to generation (yes there has been some correction on this issue but we don’t know how much) and the President believes this is acceptable and the list goes on.
The question should be is the human race terminal or can someone resurrect it?
Cavatar
Cavatar,
Good answer, even though I disagree with it!
Cavatar, Your questions posed back to matt is excellent. I do think humanity can be resurrected, but it requires someone with more than great vision. It requires someone who can execute that vision in the most diffcult of circumstances. As my boss would say, “a principle is most important when it is hardest to hold.” Roslin has great vision, “let humanity find earth. Earth is our hope and our Future.” But when things get tough, she abandons the vision. Whe they discovered new caprica, and Baltar said they should settle, instead of arguing that “Earth was the hope and the future”, she said it will be hard here, what if the cylons find us. She resorted to fear. Then, when it looked as if she would loose, instead of rally the support based on her visions as fortold by the scriptures, she settle on fixing the election. Even now, in her rage and anger with baltar, she is allowing herself to be distracted by this trial, consumed to the point of negleting her vision. At some point, she will either regroup and execute her vision in such a way that humanity will be worth ressurection, or she will not, and the Gods will find a new leader to replace her.
Matt,
The opinions not with standing, facts are facts. However we try to spin them, however we try to rationalize them, however we look at the intentions of the people around them, facts are still facts. I won’t list them all again, but much of what I posted are facts. Like Hera, we can spin the best intentions of the fleet and humanity all we want. However the FACT is, she led a conspiracy to have the child taken from her parents. So the questions are, do people in leadership positions have the right to do that without due process? And if so how high up, can the Vice President? How about members of the Quorum?
I know the woman is between a rock and a hard place most of the time and I do feel for her, but one of the reasons I am so against her is because it seems every time I look she is leading the people of the fleet to a NEW slippery slope! Sooner or later, the people will fall under either her leadership or the long term examples (not the words I wanted to use but I can’t get the spelling correct) she sets once she has died in office.
Ryan,
Thanks for your support in our campaign to bring freedom and equality to the people of the BSG fleet. I agree with your points of her being unable to execute her vision and being distracted by things like the trail. It adds more to the argument that she is a poor president.
Cavatar
Cavatar,
Whether you realize it or not the rag tag fleet is by no means a normal society and the basic convention of our society that we hold so dear can not fit so easily in to it. The fleet is under the risk of attack, supplies are low, there is a definite housing and ship shortage, etc. They are in a situation where the only source of internal and external fleet security is through the military. No one in that fleet has done a better job then Laura Roslin of realizing that and keeping the de-facto martial law that has been established through out the fleet in check. Laura Roslin has realized that sometimes in this type of situation civil liberties must be bent but she has ensured that most times all basic liberties have been established and protected. Remember there are only 40,000 human left and she has the burden of protecting the last ruminates of Colonial Society. Whether you like it or not you got to be alive to be able to enjoy liberties.
Matt & Cavatar I know you two think i am trying to get into the middle of your standing argument, and I hope I am not annoying either of you too much, but I can’t keep my mouth shut on this one. History is full of very successful and propersous society’s that were run by a benevolent dictator, or gracious monarch, or somone of that type. There is no inherent error in this form of government in isolation. And this is definetly evidence that sometimes, the one knows what is best for the whole. But, democary as a form of government, holds as one of its greatest strenghts, checks and balances that keep these benevolent dictators from abusing their powers in a longer view. History is not so kind to nations lead by single men, or single familes over many years. With absolute power, comes absolute corruption. And soon, those who have given selflessly of their wisdom to the masses began to feel entitled to other things. We are just now beginning to beginning to see this with Roslin and Adama. Roslin wants a trial, but wants to convict Gaius based on her accounts only, in light of insuffiecent evidence. Adama stated to Lee, that Baltar did not deserve a trial. You have both listed many items supporting both of your claims, but in my view, the bottom line is that if the checks and balances arn’t restored soon, the temptation of corruption will soon be too much for either of them to withstand it. Adama and Roslin have both made some very good decisions, for the benefit of humanity, but if they are reward for that, with greater control without the balance of law, then it will be humanity that begins to suffer for it.
Matt,
I don’t have much time today…will respond Saturday to you last comments…sorry.
Ryan,
Its all good, keep making all the comments ya can with us. I wish more were following his and my debate.
Cavatar
Ryan,
I agree with cavatar on that. Feel free to join in the debate.
Ryan,
I don’t think we know enough about the political structure of the fleet to assume that checks in balances have disappeared. We know that there is a legislative body the Quorum of Twelve, which as before flexed its power. If I remember correctly the only real time we get to see the Quorum in action was during Colonial Day and they forced Roslin to name a vice president. So I think it is rash to make such assumptions because the Quorum has not been seen since season 1 and we do know how they are checking Laura Roslin’s power. I would assume though if they were putting checks on her power before they would have continued to put checks on her power throughout the rest of her presidency.
Cavatar wrote: >>one of the reasons I am so against her is because it seems every time I look she is leading the people of the fleet to a NEW slippery slope!
Their foot shall slide in due time.–
Deuteronomy 32:35
We’re on a slippery slope anyway – so let’s give Roslin a break for trying to keep us alive the best way she can! (just kidding!)
Seriously, though, I can’t help but feel that we keep leaving out the moral parts of the debate. Roslin makes mistakes, and she can’t prove to anyone that her vision of Baltar with Six before the Cylon attack on the colonies was real. But we, as the audience, know it was real. In fact, we know more than anyone else in the show (except Baltar himself) how guilty he really is. So I don’t blame Roslin for butting up against the system. Like Lawyer Bill said, the trial isn’t about proving the truth; it’s about proving a set of arguments. We’ve all seen more evidence of Baltar’s guilt than the characters in the show, so we are privy to evidence that Roslin only wishes she had. So I refer back to Dee’s comment – maybe the system IS broken when we know the truth but the truth does not matter anymore because of corruption and deceit.
Audra,
I am glad that you referenced the bible. I’m going to paraphrase the teaching of Christ, but basically he says it is not man’s place to judge, becuase we do not understand one’s intent, or their heart, only he does. In this realm, we have that understanding, we as an audience understand much of the intent of those in the show. With that understanding, i think we can all agree that Baltar is quilty of pride, selfeshness, vanity and deception. But i think we can also say that regardless of his involvement with caprica, he is not quilty of collaborating to bring about the genocide of humanity. This was not his intent, and even Roslin and Adama have been quitly of being manipulated by the cylons. We don’t have the benefit of know how Roslin would have reacted had she been in Baltar’s shoes on New Caprica. My quess is that while she wouldn’t have gone so far to have signed death warrants, she would also not have attempted a full scale rebellion at the first moment of occupation. And as for the crimes that were presented at the trial, namely the death of over 5,000 people on new caprica. We know Baltar signed death warrants for over 200, but how did the other 4,800 die? In prison, proably not. While engaged in the resitance, more likely. Killed in the escape attempt, very likely. My point in all of this is that we know Baltar’s intent more than anyone, and we as the audience should be more sympathetic to him, becuase we understand his circumstances better than Roslin. I personally don’t think she is out to get him because he beat her in a free election. But I do think she wants someone to blame for all of the deaths on the orignial colony’s and on new caprica, and Baltar is the easiest to blame. So, she is using her power, authority and influence to make it happen, despite the fact that she can not prove motive or means, only oppurtunity. And the system is broken, not becuase it will eventually get a man like Baltar off, but instead because it is allowing Roslin and Adama to exercise too much control.
Matt,
Much of what you said is true with the details of there situation, but that does still not change peoples basic needs and rights. Take the laborers of the fleet, not just the much needed refinery but production in general. It may seem that they are in dire straights here, low supplies and a tremendous amount of work to do with a very small labor force. But take a closer look at our society. Just think if Monday everyone in the world decided not to go to work. It may seem silly, because there are financial reasons that stop this; that’s the back bone of the world economies.
We see money on BSG, so we know there is some kind of economy. Forcing people into labor to solve labor shortage issues is not the solution in a free society.
You said, “the rag tag fleet is by no means a normal society and the basic convention of our society that we hold so dear can not fit so easily in to it.†I am sorry, but I still feel that I should have the freedom of speech no matter if I was in my house on Earth or if I was on the refinery ship.
Audra and Matt there is being alive and being human. Humans have rights and needs that cannot be rightfully taken. The best example of what I am saying was demonstrated in a first season Star Trek: The Next Generation episode. I will quote the best I can here, when the alien said to Riker, “I could destroy them for you.†Riker: “Then they would learn nothing.†Alien: Even if they will “one day destroy you.†Riker: “Unfortunately our values may allow that to happen.â€
So based on our conversations Matt, and your joking comments Audra (as someone once said, every joke has a hint of truth) what are your values. Is your value of life and human survival so high that it takes ANY cost? Also, what happens when they stop running? Does the leader voluntarily give his/her extra power back to the people? Who is to make sure this happens? One downside to giving a person more power for an emergency, is who has the power to take it away when the emergency is over? That is where values come in. There are things that I value so highly I would give up my life for them, there are things I value so much I would chose to die then live without them. You expect me to believe that neither of you can say the same?
What values will be forever lost in the search for Earth, what will be of these people who make it there; possibly decades from now?
There is a phrase, “Mussolini made the trains run on time.â€
Here is a new phrase, “Roslin got us to Earth, but shh…she made it a crime to freely speak.â€
Cavatar
Matt and Audra,
I re-thought what I said and I feel that I was too harsh in what I was saying, especially when I was writing about values. I was just trying to make a certain point and now I regret the manner in which I did. I did not mean to call either of your values into question and I am sorry. I guess I do get a little too wrapped up in things sometimes. I am enjoying this debate very much and using the blog and I wanted to give you both an apology.
Cavatar