Laura Roslin – Friend or Foe?

I have thought a great deal of my recent underlying issues with President Roslin. The last few episodes I tend to look at her in a different light than I used to. I find everything she sayssuspect and I always find myself looking for a hidden meaning to her actions. Also being a bit mystified by the recent BSG presidential polls I am moved to type.

I think my feeling on this issue stems from a very interesting character duality. The short of it is that I like Laura Roslin but distrust President Roslin intensely. What I mean to say is that Laura, as a person, is probably a delight to all around her while “the president” wouldturn on anyone within her reach (except for Bill) with no warning or as the mood suits her.

I care about Laura and I think she tries to and believes she is doing the right thing while serving her term. We want to overlook the crimes she commits and the actions she takes because of our affection for her as a person. What we often rush to her defense with (and I am just as guilty of this as others here) are arguments that ring with phases such as “she’s only human” or “well had she not done it things might be worse now.”

These defenses might be true; they mayeven dismiss one or two little issues here and there. However the sheer volume of crimes and questionable actions that the President has been racking up lately is getting quite extensive. Things such as:

She ordered and participated in the torture of a prisoner of the colonial fleet. – Baltar

She kidnapped and held in “secret protective custody” a child born to a colonial citizen. – Baby Hera

She attempted to censor free speech. – Baltar’s book

She arrested and held men without charge. – In “Dirty Hands”

She falsified official documents. – Hera’s death certificate

She abolished a woman’s rights to choose. – Abortion

She participated in a conspiracy to have the leader of the military assassinated. – Adm. Cain (even though Bill called it off, it still counts)

She participated in and helped plan election fraudthen influenced the military to bring pressure to bear to absolve her of accountability. – The election between her and Baltar

She ordered what she believed was an attack whose intent was genocide.

Last but not least (and my personal favorite) she returned to the big chair on Colonial One by taking part in a military coup that let her assume power as an elected official without being elected or having anything remotely resembling a legal claim to office.

She continues to amaze us with her easy smile and ruthless, if a bit schizophrenic, nature. The completely inappropriate relationship between her and Bill propels the pair of them to exert an absolute stranglehold on life in the fleet, each supporting the other’s power with a swift and increasingly corrupted heavy hand. You’d think an educator (of history of all things) would see the signposts of danger, but she blows by them with such regularity that she has become quite numb to their passing.

Some (I am guilty here as well) might again rush to her defense with arguments such as: “Well, Baltar surrendered the human race to the Cylons” or “The last president they had issued executive orders legalizing death squads.” These things are quite true; they don’t, however, make what she is doing right. Being the lesser of evils doesn’t make you the best choice -it just means there are people worse than you. “At least I’m not that guy” is not the rallying cry of a great leader.

She might be a good person at heart and may even be trying to help; however it doesn’tnegate her actionsor the fact she is corrupt and impersonating an elected official.

124 Responses to "Laura Roslin – Friend or Foe?"
  1. Jim says:

    Sean – I understand your reasons. And I was going to agreed with most of what you said, but I thought that the Abortion band argument made sense. I think she is right about it, but wrong in how she did it. She does make me nervous in how she uses her office as President. She needs Billy to keep her in check, Billy would stand up against her when he thought she was stepping over the line.

    Jim

  2. Matt says:

    Sean, I am going to go through each of your points and justify Laura Roslin’s actions.

    “She ordered and participated in the torture of a prisoner of the colonial fleet. – Baltar”

    •Torture is the anguish of body or mind, something that causes agony or pain, the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure. Giving Baltar some drugs to hallucinate is clearly not torture.

    “She kidnapped and held in “secret protective custody” a child born to a colonial citizen. – Baby Hera”

    •Roslin had to hide Hera to protect her from cylon agents within the fleet.

    “She attempted to censor free speech. – Baltars’ book”

    •Baltar’s is a prisoner and has no right to distribute materials that can incite violence throughout the fleet.

    “She arrested and held men without charge. – In “Dirty Hands”

    •Yes, but these men were helping in halting the production of a crucial fuel source which the entire existence of humanity relied on. It was a grave enough threat to the existence of humanity to warrant the temporary halt of civil liberties.

    “She falsified official documents. – Heras’ death certificate”

    •Yes, but is was a necessary act to ensure the safety of Hera.

    “She abolished a woman’s rights to choose. – Abortion”

    •Was necessary to insure the survival of the Human race.

    “She participated in a conspiracy to have the leader of the military assassinated. – Adm. Cain (even though Bill called it off, it still counts)”

    •Cain posed a gave threat to the civilian fleet and also did not answer or unacknowledged the President’s authority which is insubordination and mutiny which are acts punishable by death

    “She participated in and helped plan election fraud then influenced the military to bring pressure to bear to absolve her of accountability. – The election between her and Baltar”

    •Yes, and it would have been a lot better for humanity if she pulled it off.

    “She ordered what she believed was an attack whose intent was genocide.”

    •It is not genocide if they are machines that were created by humans.

    “Last but not least (and my personal favorite) she returned to the big chair on Colonial One by taking part in a military coup that let her assume power as an elected official without being elected or having anything remotely resembling a legal claim to office.”

    •There was nothing illegal about this. Zarak (which I might add was never elected either) appointed a Vice-President under the Articles of Colonization, which was then confirmed by the Quorum of Twelve, which is elected by the Fleet and are the voice of the people. He resigned after believing he was not going to be able to lead the fleet and the Vice-President assumed the Powers of the Presidency.

  3. Cavatar says:

    These are great points…

    Matt, the ends don’t justify the means. Even Adolph Hitler thought he was doing what was right. Evil people often do not see themselves as the bad guy.

    If all the problems in the world could be solved by giving up your freedoms for a few years, would you do it?

    Also Matt…Ever hear the phrase “Give me liberty or give me death.”?
    Cavatar

  4. Tim L says:

    I have to agree with Matt here. These people are fighting to survive after an almost complete destruction of the human race. They are clinging to the conventions of their pre-holocaust lives, and considering all the fleet has been through, it’s remarkable the President has been as good as she has been. She has certainly bent the rules, but questions of morality are largely ignored when faced with the question of survival.

  5. Matt says:

    Cavatar,

    I will help you out even though I disagree with your point “Give me liberty or give me death” isn’t really the quote that you want to be using the quote you want to be using is Ben Franklin’s Quote, “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” but this is not the American revolution and those conventions and Quotes do not really apply to a fleet of 40,000 that is the last remnants of humanity. You said, “If all the problems in the world could be solved by giving up your freedoms for a few years, would you do it?” We are not talking about solving problems, my friend, we are talking about the survival of the human race and if I was in a fleet of 40,000 people and we were the only survivors of humanity I can understand and accept the limited, not total, but limited suspension of some civil liberties. Freedom can only be enjoyed if you are alive to enjoy it. In the Battlestar world it is important to keep the basic tenets of a free society but in some instances the rules must be bent and yes sometimes broken, just like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the civil war. The rag tag fleet is by no way a normal society and the basic conventions of what we see as an open and free society can’t be adapted to it so easily.

  6. Athenor says:

    Personally, I believe Roslin has gone off the deep end. If you can believe it, she was more in control and understanding under the effects of the drugs in the first and second seasons. I think that New Caprica changed her, though, far more than the other characters. Starbuck and Tigh got smacked back to reality during season 3. Adama is in the middle of his crisis. But Roslin has never had a chance to think over what she’s done, or realize that she’s becoming worse than Baltar.

    While I understand Matt’s counterpoints, and how they fit into the story, Sean is right — her actions committed in the 3rd season are no where near as important to the fleet as in the second. It started becoming apparent when she started treating civvies the same way she was treating Baltar. She wants, SO BADLY, to see Baltar killed for what he did to all of them. But she knows that she can’t do that. If she does, the fleet will break up.

    She needs to cope with her losing her “cabin.” She’s clinging to Bill right now as her only bouy.. And I don’t think he is seeing that in the right light. the quest for earth is stalled (How is Roslin taking the death of the one who brought her the Arrow of Apollo, anyways?), and so Roslin really has no direction other than Baltar.

    Something’s going to snap. I get the suspicion this will be the crux of the early part of next season.

  7. Saberhawk says:

    I agree that I am uneasy about Roslin. However, I think she is about to be displaced within the next two weeks which may add a lot of tension and dynamics to the show.

    Just think for a minute what happens to Baltar if he is acquited. Doesn’t that immediatly put him back into the role as president? What would be if frist actions after kickin’ ‘ol Airlock out of her office? Perhaps it would be to relieve Adama of his command and install his new, trusted friend – Lee….what happens to the conflict between the military and the civie fleet then…civil war? Is Callie correct in her deleted scene – the Cylon are just wailting while the survivors tear themselves up from within – with a little help from Romo and Baltar?

    The next two weeks sill tell a bit of the tale and leave us on the edge of a large cliffhanger – Roslin and Bill out of a job, fleet at war with itself, basestar jumps into the middle of the fleet and Starbuck wakes up in goo.

  8. vodkamartiniup says:

    i am embarised to leave shut a short posting in leu of everyone elses deep posts, but i too do not like roslyn…hilary clinton would be better..lol..can cylons have cancer? and didnt she get a blood transfusion from the cylon baby…maybe there was some transference of cylon dna which is whacking her out.

  9. vodkamartiniup says:

    also do not forget what ben franklin said…THOSE WHO GIVE UP LIBERTY FOR SECURITY DON DESERVE LIBERTY OR SECURITY…just because the fleet is in deep trouble…the human rights and liberties of human beings must be kept strong..right now adama and the president are like dictators…and we saw in the election that she does not want to give up power…just like a classic totalitarian regime

  10. Rorlins says:

    You can dislike her methods all you want, but given the circumstances would you really act any different?

    This isn’t Earth. It isn’t even one of the colonies. It’s the 40,000 people left of all known humanity in outerspace with 6inches or so of steel all the seperates them from life and explosive decompression. If something should fail there, then it’s not just a matter of “wow, we got hurt by having liberties we didn’t need” it’s “wow, there’s no humanity left.”

    Many of the “tough choices” were made because the ends are the ulimate ends. She’s not using “unethical means” to save “a life” or even “many lives”. She is making ethical choices to save “All of Humanity”.

    I have difficutly, some days, with the responsiblity of seeing to my wife, my cats, and my 120 some-odd students. Imagine having to see not just to the needs and futures of 40,000 people, but the legacy of your entire race.

    I’m willing to cut her *some* slack on some of the issues you raise, simply because Inaction on her part (such as allowing Caine to intergrate everyone into a military fleet) would have quite likely led, directly or indirectly, to the end of all human life.

    Rorlins

  11. Zigdon says:

    I tend to agree with Matt – everything the president did can be directly tied to the survival of the human race. It’s a tricky moral question, and I’m not sure I’m happy with any of the answers I can think of – but I think her approach is the correct one: Try to keep the democracy going, but take the expanded authority that comes with the state of war – only this isn’t just a war, it *is* a fight for the human race.

    I’m not saying she never makes mistakes, just that I think the complaints brought against her, while true, aren’t relevant.

  12. Mack-the-Mike says:

    While Sean has some good points, his two biggest charges, that Roselin participated in a coup and attempted genocide, are incorrect. It was clear from Roselin’s conversations with Zarek that they were following the rules of succession spelled out in the Articles of Colonization. Zarek didn’t want to be President. As for genocide, Matt is quite correct, turning off machines isn’t genocide. When Callie shot Boomer, all she was charged with was unauthorized discharge of a weapon, not attemped murder.

    I agree, however, that rigging the election and conspiring to murder Cain were clearly crimes.

    The bottom line, though, is that given the overall situation would it be productive to oppose her? Probably not. Which is why on the polls, I approve of Roselin’s performance in office.

  13. Cavatar says:

    Matt,

    I can agree with your points to an extent, but the fact that there is only 40,000 humans left makes her actions more grievous; not justified.

    Take the refinery, just because the fuel is so important does not make it correct to enslave those people, and work them and the ship to the brink. She has had time in her first (legal) term and time in her second (not so legal) term to address this problem before it came to ahead. We saw in “dirty hands” where something gets caught in the belts that could have blown up the ship, if that happened the game is up. At least that is what they made it seem like.

    There has been plenty of time to train others so these people who some have not had a day off since the first attack could have had rest, and possible rotations off the shift, added incentives to do that work through higher wages, or other perks; sort of like hazard pay for soldiers in combat areas.

    She had no objection to “jobs being inherited.” Does that mean that when she and Adama finally hook up, that there kid becomes president? Does that make her Queen Roslin? I think it heard in the RDM podcast, when the Admiral resigned (I know Roslin didn’t accept it) he was planning on placing Lee in command of Galactica. I was thinking that when Baltar said to the Chief “Do you think anyone will command this fleet whose name isn’t Adama?”

    I know to say the times are hard is an understatement in the BSG world. That just makes it more important for her to do a grand job, and it makes her mistakes just that more hard to genuinely justify. Take abortion, at what point is it returned. When the population is 100,000 or 500,000 or a million? What is the magic number? If you have a right to freedom of speech when there in 12 billion people alive, then you should have freedom of speech when there is 12 people alive.

    And as for Lincoln, just because he did it, does not make is right. He after all was still, just a man.

    The worst of it is, either she is ok with what is happening or just does not know what is happening. Like 15 years ago when George H.W. Bush could not answer the question of how much a gallon of milk cost. It meant either he lost touch with the people, or did not care of the struggles of the people. That is the worse part of her administration. But don’t tell her that, because she will jail you without trail and drug you for information.

    Cavatar

  14. Athenor says:

    Vodkamar, you have to be kidding me. Go look up the wikiquote for Benjaman Franklin. The statement is actually: “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Note the qualifiers? (And Franklin may not have even written it.)

    In the world of Battlestar Galactica, only once has temprary safety been bought at the hands of essential liberty: Baltar surrendering to the cylons.

    Roslin’s crimes, while big, do not constitute violations of people’s rights to live. She uses intimidation and force, but never would she actually take a life if it could be avoided. That’s the line she cannot step over (although it is a line Bill can step over.) The only time that has blurred was with Admiral Cain, and that was a benefit of the many/benefit of the one type situation.

    Someone raised an excellent point above: If baltar is aquitted, would he be put back into place as the President? I can’t see the people being happy with that, nor can I see any law records that would allow that. AT THE VERY LEAST HE WAS ONBOARD A CYLON SHIP, AND NOT A PRISONER. If Caprica 6 admits this, then he will never hold power or sway in the fleet again.

    No.. there’s the cliffhanger. It’d be a weak one.. but that’s what the trial hinges on.

    Other outs include giving Gina the nuke, any dealings on New Caprica that weren’t coerced, and being in the temple on the algae planet with D’anna and Caprica.

  15. Mack-the-Mike says:

    I think we are supposed to infer that Roselin is working with the Quorum of Twelve off screen to pass whatever legislation is needed to implement her policies within the strictures of the Articles of Colonization. The dramatic structure of the show doesn’t allow for all that background work to be portrayed. How interesting would it be to watch committee meetings? BSG would have the ratings of C-SPAN if they did that.

    As to merits of her policies (as opposed to their legality), surely drafting people for critical jobs is justified. This kind of practice has a long history. In the Jamestown settlement in Virgina in the 1600, the leader, Captain John Smith enforced the rule “No work, no eat.”

    Cavatar criticizes Roselin for having a policy to “enslave those people, and work them and the ship to the brink.” But of course, the policy of drafting refinery workers was implemented precisely to avoid over-working the refinery crew. She’s in a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t dilemma. If she drafts people to work in the refinery she’s “enslaving” them. If she doesn’t then the existing workers are “worked to the brink”.

    Roselin *did* object to the inheriting of jobs, when it was pointed out to her, and she encouraged the formation of a union.

  16. Jothoma says:

    I actually think the writers are smarter than we are giving them credit for. A couple of podcasts ago you all specualted that Roslin and Adama were acting out of the character persona that we have grown to know. In dirty hands Roslin does not listen to the Cheif’s legitimate concerns and Adama threatening to kill Callie are good examples of this. The stress of each of their jobs is certainly weighing on them and they are being consumed by it. Also, they are succoming to the adage that absolute power corrupts and their actions are proof of that. As much as they discuss democracy it really is a dictatorship of Roslin and Adama at this point. Baltar’s manifesto is resonating with the public for a reason and this will ultimately play out in his trial and will probably lead to his acquittal. Roslin and Adama are due for a serious comuppance and I think the writers are setting us up for that.

    I also think Roslin is not going to deal well with the fact that she is not the chosen one to lead them to earth but that Starbuck is (just a theory on my part). That is the only thing that makes sense to me about the Starbuck Destiny issue and will give her death meaning. Either way I am really enjoying the direction of the show right now. Badger as Baltar’s lawyer is perfect casting and he seems really creepy is a Leoban-cylon sort of way. One of the Final Five maybe?

  17. vodkamartiniup says:

    athenor…lets remember that your precious “wiki” stuff is not a valid resource for any real academics…it is a toy…quote to me from a real source like a book next time you want to take personal umbrige with me…and by the way remember that this IS NOT REAL and stop acting like i hurt your sister when i speak of the president and her shortcommings other than that live long and prosper

  18. Athenor says:

    *blink*

    … *blink blink* erm… Okay?

  19. Cavatar says:

    Mack-the-Mike,

    Yes Roslin did object to jobs being inherited to the Chief when he brought it to her attention, so the next questions are… Can you trust her response to the Chief as being genuine, or was she saying to appease him? Why did she, “the president” not see that before the Chief did?

    As for your response to the work to the bring comment I made, yes she is NOW in a dammed if do or don’t do situation. However if she was worth her salt (or the wine she is drinking on Colonial One) this would have been addressed long ago in a possible number of ways; some of which I have previously mentioned. I don’t think it to much to expect your Queen, I mean President to be proactive.

    Cavatar

  20. Athenor says:

    I still think this is all coming to a head because they are getting their first opportunity since New Caprica to sit down and re-evaluate their lives. Before, they did it under gunfire. Now, they are doing it in relative safety. You know.. ignoring phantom heavy raiders.

  21. Mack-the-Mike says:

    This is a fun discussion. The Watercooler ought to consider doing a McLaughlin Group type of podcast over the break where you pretend to be partisans of different factions within the Fleet. “Issue One: Presidential Perfidy or Reasonabe Reaction?”

  22. Ryan says:

    In the Mini-Series Adama said something in his retirement speach about asking our selves why. Why do we deserve to survive as a specices? Roslin in the mini-series said something along the lines of we need to go and start making babies. Even from the begining, Roslin has seen her job as to preserve the human race, whatever the cost. But Adama’s question remains unanwsered. Is survial enough, don’t we need to deserve to survive? Baltar is quilty of alot of things, but most of all, he is quilty of allowing others to suffer as a means to his own perservation. Roslin’s actions are only slightly different, she is quilty of allowing others to suffer as a means to the race’s perservation. In either case is it really enough, just to survive?

  23. ShinyFab says:

    In Dirty Hands, Roslin (paraphrasing from what I can remember) tells Tyrol at the end of the ep that if part of the fleet is completely disenfranchised from Colonial society when they reached Earth it would not be a good representation of Colonial life (I might argue otherwise, but for now I’m just focusing on Roslin). She is as conciliatory with admission that Tyrol is right to want to help people onboard ships being overlooked as she is with the ambrosia she kept feeding Tyrol, getting him summarily a little tipsy before going into ‘negotiations’ with the leader of the union and a Colonial military member. As the seasons have passed I’ve become less shocked by her ability to make people think she’s a friend before she airlocks them. Is she any better than Baltar? Really? At the current moment, she has ignored the plight of non-military & presidential personnel within the fleet to maintain her vengence against Baltar. When she finally did talk to the union it was after Adama (most likely) communicated with her he was sending Tyrol and then she starts off negotiations as a friend with a lot of alcohol. She has tortured, lied, forged, airlocked prisoners of war, arrested people just because she can, and made serious, not really joking, jokes about burning books. She has been playing the power game practically since she became president (manipulating Lee a few times, manipulating Kara, making Baltar VP to help win her election, her little coup). Her guise is one of good for her people as long as she maintains her power. She’s always made me a bit nervous. Like I’m in the room with the nicest, smartest psycho who manages to smile, shake your hand and stab you in the back at the same time. Baltar’s smart and manipulative, but oozes a sleezy self-absorption that is more ‘yeah,okay whatever’ then ‘she really listens to me and wants to help and I SO trust her’. I would rather get into a fight with Starbuck then face Roslin.

  24. ShinyFab says:

    PS – I meant non-presidential personnel.

    PPS – and who doesn’t think Tory conveniently ‘forgot’ to look for the files for Lee, probably with Roslin’s blessing?

    I think I’m finally done now.

  25. Rorlins says:

    Lots of good stuff here. The guys really need a web forum or something so we can have more of these.

    Re: Wikipedia –

    While not accademically recognized, it is proving to be as reliable a source with an average of 4 mistakes per entry as any other print encyclopedia, usually averaging 3 mistakes.

    Re: Franklin and Liberties

    Franklin is one of the most quoted people from American History and even if his statement did not include the word “Essential” liberty, it should also be noted that he was not talking about the liberty to have an abortion, nor the liberty to organize a work stoppage. He was referring to the liberty to establish self government. When you quote a man as though quoting scripture, then the context of his quotation is equally as valuable.

    Re: Roslin’s Job

    Her job is to make sure the human race survives, and survives in a state in which life is worth living. I do not think any of her actions are inconsistant with the ulimate goal of making certain that there is a human race to enjoy some form of liberty. Did she make mistakes? Yes. But I do believe that ulimately she has been working with good intent and that she does wish for Humans to survive first and foremost.

    I approve of her as we tend to forget that all the “real world” parallels, that the fantasy world of BSG is radically different in scope. One lost ship isn’t just 1,000’s of lives, it’s a measureable percentage of all that is left of humanity. It’d be like there being a single mistake in the war on terror and suddenly all of Indianna is gone. One mistake and there goes Florida. I really do think we understimate the sheer weight of responsiblity here.

    Rorlins

  26. bloodredguy says:

    How often do we see flawed women of action? We frequently see men who make the “tough” calls, choose poorly and face the music. The ambiguities of both the person and their choices are what make them of interest. Other shows provide parallels. Contemporaries such as Jack Bauer and Tony Soprano are extreme only because the are put in less philisophical situations. Anyone who is in a position of responsibility can relate (maybe not on the life or death level) to these choices and their consequences.

  27. Athenor says:

    I beg your pardon! I am the best member of this site, and I will be given the respect I deserve. Please refrain from getting involved in what you cant understand. remember I think that I will help you out even though I disagree with your point You said, “If all the problems in the world could be solved by giving up your freedoms for a few years, would you do it?” We are not talking about solving problems, my friend, we are talking about the survival of the human race and if I was in a fleet of 40,000 people and we were the only survivors of humanity I can understand and accept the limited, not total, but limited suspension of some civil liberties. Freedom can only be enjoyed if you are alive to enjoy it. In the Battlestar world it is important to keep the basic tenets of a free society but in some instances the rules must be bent and yes sometimes broken, just like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the civil war. The rag tag fleet is by no way a normal society and the basic conventions of what we see as an open and free society can’t be adapted to it so easily.

  28. ShinyFab says:

    oh goodness. The sheer pressure of Rolling Stone fame! *swoon* Rorlins, I understand Roslin has a great responsibility to bear. After all she is the (unelected) president. Would Roslin be an example of absolute power corrupts absolutely? I remember she was concerned with becoming the stereotypical ‘politician’ and didn’t want to play dirty political games. When the time came though, she took a flying leap into dirty political games to outright illegal political games. Now she’s come from secretary of education to concerned sudden president to powerful dictator, a power she and Adama share. The relationship between them and the way they wield their collective power could be said to resemble a monarchy. Was Cally right? That the fleet wouldn’t belong to anyone not named Adama?

  29. suzanne says:

    i went back and watched resurrection ship 1 & 2, where i think we see the beginning of roslin’s – i take the law into my own hands attitude- in her telling adama that cain must be asassinated. i think she is moved to this originally to save the fleet, but as she is dying of cancer, this protectiveness over the fleet morphs into an “ends justify the means” sort of logic. in this episode, it is adama who reconsiders and feels that while it might be more convenient to get cain out of the way, it is immoral. adama continues to be a check on roslin’s power (he tells roslin to pack it in and not go through with fixing the election because (i think) she does not want to become the sort of person that wins by cheating). it is ironic, unethical that she is now in power through a back room deal. could we at least send in quarters to the bsg writers to ask for a new election?

    in season 3, perhaps because of new caprica, or personal feelings for roslin, adama is no longer a check on her power. and the quorum seems to have disappeared, which makes roslin’s actions seem even more unilateral.

    is it not odd that roslin (and tory- the karl rove of the roslin administration) , are monitoring so closely baltar’s interrogation?

  30. Sean O'Hara says:

    Wow guys, awesome stuff here!

    Shiny, totally agree about rather facing Starbuck, at least with her you’ll see your but kicking coming from a miles away.

    Cav, as always your holding strong with me on this one.

    Suzanne, I hadn’t thought of that but you might have something there…I’ll have to go back and look. 🙂

    Rorlins, I dig wikipedia too. 😀 I also agree that the heavy load the leader of humanity carries is emmense, but I have to go with Ryan and say that I think there must be more to life than survival at any cost. The things Roslin is giving up are as important to the fleets way of life as the number of people in it.

    Ath, I think you’re dead on about this coming to a head because they all have a little time to think now.

  31. Ryan says:

    I think Baltar will get off realitvely scott free, and when he does, Roslin is likely to find herself face to face with the consequences of her behavior. I wonder if at that point, she will correct herself, or plunge further into the maddness.

    And Suzanne is right on about Adama’s personal feelings getting in the way of him being the check.

    I think that Adama’s change in character is really the major character change. Roslins point of view has certainly become more visible recently, but is it not the same point of view as back in Flesh and Bone when she performed the original Air Lock? I seem to rember RDM talking in a podcast from back in season 2 how when you first see their characters, you suspect that Roslin is the Moral Compass, and Adama the Hardliner, but then you realize that the opposite is true.

    I quess what i am saying is that Adama needs to open his eyes, and resume his role before things go too far.

  32. The 13th Cylon says:

    Laura can be both a friend and a foe. A froe, if you will. She has good intentions, but you know what they say about them paving the road to Hell.

  33. Matt says:

    Athenor,

    May I ask why you copied text from my post above without citing it, just wondering????

    My Post on March 13th, 2007 at 4:22am

    Cavatar,

    I will help you out even though I disagree with your point “Give me liberty or give me death” isn’t really the quote that you want to be using the quote you want to be using is Ben Franklin’s Quote, “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” but this is not the American revolution and those conventions and Quotes do not really apply to a fleet of 40,000 that is the last remnants of humanity. You said, “If all the problems in the world could be solved by giving up your freedoms for a few years, would you do it?” We are not talking about solving problems, my friend, we are talking about the survival of the human race and if I was in a fleet of 40,000 people and we were the only survivors of humanity I can understand and accept the limited, not total, but limited suspension of some civil liberties. Freedom can only be enjoyed if you are alive to enjoy it. In the Battlestar world it is important to keep the basic tenets of a free society but in some instances the rules must be bent and yes sometimes broken, just like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the civil war. The rag tag fleet is by no way a normal society and the basic conventions of what we see as an open and free society can’t be adapted to it so easily.

    This was your post on March 13th, 2007 at 7:48 pm

    I beg your pardon! I am the best member of this site, and I will be given the respect I deserve. Please refrain from getting involved in what you cant understand. remember I think that I will help you out even though I disagree with your point You said, “If all the problems in the world could be solved by giving up your freedoms for a few years, would you do it?” We are not talking about solving problems, my friend, we are talking about the survival of the human race and if I was in a fleet of 40,000 people and we were the only survivors of humanity I can understand and accept the limited, not total, but limited suspension of some civil liberties. Freedom can only be enjoyed if you are alive to enjoy it. In the Battlestar world it is important to keep the basic tenets of a free society but in some instances the rules must be bent and yes sometimes broken, just like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the civil war. The rag tag fleet is by no way a normal society and the basic conventions of what we see as an open and free society can’t be adapted to it so easily. (All of the underlined is text that was copied from my earlier post)

    I don’t mind if you use my words but please cite that they came from me.

  34. Matt says:

    Sorry it didn’t underline the text like I hoped. The copied text started on his post at “I think…and ended at the end of his post.

  35. The 13th Cylon says:

    Oh, Sean, I do disagree with you about how Roslin got back into power. I really don’t think that Adama wouldn’t have supported a Zarek Administration as much as Tom thought. Bill HATED Baltar and still followed orders to settle on New Caprica. I do think that Tom knew that things would probably flow better for everyone if Roslin took control, and keep in mind that if something does happen to Laura, Tom will be back in control.

    And don’t you just love this show! All these things she’s done are so debatable as to whether they’re right or wrong. I’m not one of these moral relativists, but these are really tough to answer. I’ve never been cramped on a ship without fresh air for 2 years and having the entire human race’s destiny rest on my every decision, so I can’t say that I would do something different. The last job on Earth I would want is to be President of the US. I’d lose it! Heck, maybe the chamallah was good to calm her nerves. I’m kind of surprised she hasn’t started taking it again since we got a few good clues in finding Earth when she was using it.

  36. Matt says:

    I see many of you say that Roslin conspiring to kill Adm. Cain was illegal. It was not, she told Adama that Cain was not responding to her calls, which means that orders that the President would have issued were being ignored by the Cain. Cain did not respect the chain of command and the powers of the civilian Commander-In-Chief. This is Insubordination at best, which is punishable by death in a time of war. Since Cain was in command of a more powerful warship any attempt to arrest her would have been fruitless and would have caused massive military losses. The best solution was to covertly take Cain out and not risk the loss of essential military assets.

  37. Athenor says:

    Guys, people are posting under my name without my permission. I was away all day, visiting my folks.

    The last post I made was the one at 1:05 PM.

    The site operators can verify this via e-mailing me or otherwise checking the mail addresses.

    This is kind of a disturbing change in events, especially considering a personal attack was made against me earlier.

  38. Matt says:

    Athenor,

    Sorry about that man, I didn’t know someone else was posting under your name that sucks!!!!

  39. Athenor says:

    Yeah.. I guess it was bound to happen as this place picked up in popularity, and I’m not sure how to prevent it given the nature of this place.

    I promise you, cross my heart and hope to be boxed, I would never, EVER disparage anyone here, or claim I was better than anyone else. That’s not the kind of environment I enjoy. We are all here to enjoy the show, not to attack one another and frak with each other. My comments against Vodka were out of line earlier, because I was upset at people claiming the BSG world is a direct analogue to the history of the United States. I should’ve made that clearer, and not directed it at him. That’s why I tried to let it go, so I wouldn’t say anything stupid. It seems others did in my place.

  40. frank says:

    Ath,

    I knew something was up, I have read your posts for awhile, and i know what your posts are like, and this is disturbing. I could tell that someone is playing a disgusting game. Is this the price that has to be payed for the increased popularity? I hope not, we have always had heated debates, but when it came down to it we were always friendly, and polite. Noone will question what happened to you today, we all know what kind of person you are, and that you are good people.

    your friend,
    frank

  41. Cavatar says:

    Athenor,

    I am so sorry to hear that people are posting under your name. Perhaps there can be a name registration with a password to prevent this?

    Cavatar

  42. Athenor says:

    Thanks, man, I appreciate that.

    I personally like the open style, where you don’t need much to jump in on the conversation. It allows for people to just go for it, without worrying about baggage. But that comes with risks. The podcast owners can’t authorize every post that gets made, as that would slow down communication something fierce. And I don’t know what a forum community would create, to be honest. … I guess I just don’t have any concrete answers. I would ask that the posts be marked somehow by the admins as being fake. I’m also probably going to change my e-mail once this passes over a bit.

    But anyways. It’s frakking late, I’ve spent about 4-6 hours total on the road today for a 5-6 hour visit with my family, and I’m frankly dead tired right now. I’m just glad I hopped on to check things!

    Can’t wait to see what tomorrow’s discussion brings to this place! =)

  43. Matt says:

    Athenor I think I can with 98% confidence that your imposter is “vodkamartiniup” just compare his style of writing to the imposter posts they match up.

    vodkamartiniup Says:
    March 13th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    athenor…lets remember that your precious “wiki” stuff is not a valid resource for any real academics…it is a toy…quote to me from a real source like a book next time you want to take personal umbrige with me…and by the way remember that this IS NOT REAL and stop acting like i hurt your sister when i speak of the president and her shortcommings other than that live long and prosper

    Notice the … in his posts, Now look at the imposter posts

    athenor Says:
    March 13th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
    Ho Hum this is all starting to bore me…some of these posts are very much benieth me and my intelectual stamina…Rorlins you are very wrong with the franklin quote…no one here is as smart as me

    Athenor Says:
    March 13th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
    ToasterChick…please that episode was very good…try to watch it again and seee if it gets better…I think the best is Epiphanies…Cancer is such a dramatic subject i just love all the drama around the sick…great show

  44. Cavatar says:

    Sean, it is always good to know that I am holding strong with you. Thanks!

    Mack-the-Mike…the McLaughlin Group podcast idea was GREAT!!! It would be fun to have Sean and I go head to head with Matt and another Roslin supporter in that forum.

    Matt, I saw the issues with Athenor and I just wanted to make sure we had no hard feelings. This is all in the spirit of good fun.

    Cavatar

  45. frank says:

    Cav,

    I go along with Matt.

    Although I have to admit that reading these posts I really can see it both ways. You, Sean, and the others really have a strong case, but isn’t debate fun?

    Ath,
    Another bad post found in the character deaths thread around the same time as the other impostor posts, this one urging people to bet you that Lee is a cylon.

    Have fun all, I am sure they will figure it out.

  46. frank says:

    I am getting exited about debating, think about it, instead of quoting JFK, or Reagan, or Franklin we quote Kirk, spock, and Adama

  47. Matt says:

    Cavatar,

    It is all good; I love heated debate and would love to take you, Sean and the Roslin haters on any day lol. I don’t think you even came close to saying anything that would have offended me, and I hope I did not say anything that came close to offending you. It sickens my though that people would do stuff like what they did to Athenor. When I posted my problem with the then not known but now known imposter Athenor or who I believe is vodkamartiniup it was not about being offended it was about the coping of one of my earlier post.

  48. Athenor says:

    Ooooh no. Let’s not cross that line, Frank. Roddenberry was genius in his time, but the concept of Kirk versus Adama.. *shudder* My nerd sensibilities would be going off the deep end!

    Besides, have you seen Olmos in Stand and Deliver? The man has massive… erm… well… *rubs chin* How to phrase this…

    Ah, frak it. Man’s got massive, huge amounts of moral ground to stand on. I honestly don’t know if I could look him in the eye.

  49. Cavatar says:

    Frank,

    For what it is worth, I truly believe that the Character of Laura Roslin believes she is doing the right thing. That being said, I think she has become corrupted in many ways and is no longer the person we saw in the mini-series. However she still thinks she is a good guy.

    I also want to comment on the legality of her presidency. Here is a point I made LONG AGO. Zarek became the president under the pretence that Baltar had died on New Caperica. Then Roslin became president in the back room deal. However, Baltar had lived; thus making the pretence that Zarek became president on false!

    We know Balar was never removed form office, because they had to elect a new quorum before Zarek resigned. So that makes him the LEGAL president of the colonies. If Baltar is found not guilty, there is no grounds for him not to re-take the office he was elected to. Also, if he is found guilty and removed from office; then Zarek is again president.

    Cavatar

  50. Athenor says:

    I promise, last thought before I go to bed…

    I think it would be a nice, refreshing change for the show to have Tom Zarak as prez for about half a season. I don’t know if Richard Hatch’s contracts would allow him to take such an active role, but I do think the show would benefit from having a “familiar but not mainline” cast member in a position of power. It would give a foil to what Roslin has done, it wouldn’t completely depose her (She’d be able to be more open with Adama, and she could probably still act as Veep), and it would allow her to rethink her values and keep Zarak in check.

    It’d be nice, to say the least. And it would be a sufficient enough twist after 3 seasons to make it interesting, especially as we approach the critical third act. And who knows, maybe the 10 month hiatus is to work around Richard Hatch’s schedule, although I somehow doubt that.

  51. Matt says:

    Roslin though in many ways reminds me of Ronald Reagan both started out liberal in persuasion and were changed and strengthened by wars, Roslin the 2nd Cylon war and Reagan the cold war. Now I know that the Cold War does not even close to the 2nd Cylon War but I do think it is a good analogy of how conflict can change people to a more conservative outlook.

  52. Cavatar says:

    Matt,

    All is good there buddy, you didn’t come close to saying anything offensive to me. I know I have made some wise cracks, and after seeing what is happening I wanted to make sure all was good. “And I would never speak bad about the Queen, I mean president.” Lines like that.

    Anyways Matt we need to come up with political names for the Roslin supporters/haters?

    Any ides there???

    Cavatar

  53. Cavatar says:

    Political party names I mean…

  54. Athenor says:

    ‘Lockkers?

    Or does that have too much of a negative connotation? =P

  55. frank says:

    Cav,
    That would make one heck of a great story for next season, if Baltar is found not guilty. I can see Adamlin really losing control if Baltar regains the presidency. I just don’t think (personally) that anyone would stand for it, when it comes down to it, Roslin has made some bad calls, but she never surrendered to the cylons, she never gave a nuke to a known cylon, and she didn’t spend months as a guest of the cylons on a basestar.

    I will admit that she was extremely questionable in “dirty hands” It seemed to me that she argued points that at the end when she was talking (drinking) with Chief she openly granted, that I will admit was kind of crazy.

    My real opinion of her is that she has an enormous amount of pressure on her, which everyone on the show has, they are all going through things that we cannot fathom, so under these situations I feel that she is doing an OK job. I will not say she is doing great or exceptional, but she is doing OK. Part of me wishes Zarek would have kept the job, and part of me wishes Baltar would get it back ( just for the sake of the show, imagine the stories they could come up with.) Debate on !!!!!!!

  56. Cavatar says:

    Athenor,

    We names for both sides, maybe they can do a poll on that when we have some ideas???

    You can have the Roslincrats or something…

    Cavatar

  57. frank says:

    there you go Cav, the roslincrats and the baltarians

  58. Cavatar says:

    Frank,

    Loving the Adamiln line!!! Adama would go nuts if Baltar would return to office. Would even be better if would promote Lee to out rank his father for helping him in the trail. Then the Chief can say to Roslin, you have school teacher in your background so you can teach the new people how to use the refinery machinery.

    Cavatar

  59. Cavatar says:

    Frank,

    Great, now we need one for Zarek. There is the green party, we could use the Zareen party or something.

    Cavatar

  60. Matt says:

    Cavatar,

    Well I guess we could say that Roslin is now a part of the establishment and wants to keep the status quo socially, militarily and economically in which she is conserving the old Colonial society. She is a Conservative. While her opposition does not like the status quo and wants to see rapid change and we can call them liberals.

  61. Matt says:

    If Baltar becomes President again we might “accidentally” see the launch of ones of those nukes on Galactica at Colonial One. You never know with Adama these days. lol

  62. Cavatar says:

    Matt,

    That is perfect…the Roslincrats will be the “conservatives ” We can even call them the GOP.

    It’s funny, in real life I consider myself to be conservatives, but in the BSG world I am a liberal…LOL

    Cavatar

  63. Matt says:

    GOP= Gaius on a Pike, lol, And before anyone says anything I am not talking about the Pike on this blog I am talking about a wooden pike lol.

  64. Cavatar says:

    LOL at pike…good idea on clarifying.

  65. Cavatar says:

    It got quiet…anyone still out there?

  66. Matt says:

    I am still here; I was just making something to eat.

  67. Cavatar says:

    Ahh…I think everyone else went to bed on us.

  68. Matt says:

    I would have to agree with that assessment; I will most likely be doing the same thing in the next hour myself.

  69. Cavatar says:

    I still have at least 2 hours left before I turn in…I don’t want to get up to early in the morning. Then I will be falling asleep in the drive home from work.

  70. Matt says:

    So I think we can call Zarek’s party the Felons Re-born party

  71. Cavatar says:

    LOL…I like that.

    So you have to agree with me on the concept that her current term has holes in it. As far if Roslin or Baltar is the legal preisdent?

  72. Matt says:

    Yes, but I do not think that we know enough of the colonial legal system and the Articles of Colonization to make a certain call either way. I mean we don’t know if the Quorum can remove the President or if they have something like our 25th amendment which allows the cabinet with congressional approval to remove the President.

  73. Matt says:

    We also do not know what the Quorum did on New Caprica, they might have voted secretly to remove Baltar and make Zarek acting President. We just don’t know enough yet to make a definite call either way.

  74. Cavatar says:

    Agreed…but after the “Second Exodus” Zarek made it clear that as soon as a new quorum was elected that he would nominate Roslin as VP and so forth. And it was also clear that he took the office with the absence of Baltar. So there was no quorum present to remove Baltar. That is the basis of my argument, that Baltar was assumed dead.

  75. Matt says:

    I don’t know, but I don’t even think Baltar is stupid enough to think he can be President again and I don’t think he will pursue the office.

  76. Cavatar says:

    Oh I agree that he will not pursue the office… But it does put into question the legal standing of everything she has done since new caperica. Including the blanket aministy.

  77. Matt says:

    I personally think she has legal standing, but if she doesn’t you are right there are going to be a lot of problems for her.

  78. Cavatar says:

    I do think that, if that were to occur would a intersting side stroy arc to follow…espically if she loses the office. Her fall from grace would be fun to watch. Given how high and mightly she looked as she was having Baltar stripped in front of her. I just feel she needs to be humbled a little…or a lot.

  79. Matt says:

    I think Roslin was booted once from office, they did that story already I dont think they are going to do it again. Roslin is the strong leader the fleet needs. A better question to ask is who could run the fleet better??

  80. Cavatar says:

    I don’t know…

    I do think that the Chief, being the union rep for EVERY HUMAN ALIVE gives him great influence. Maybe even enough to beat Roslin in an election. He is now in a position to basically take credit for every working man improvement; even if he was responsible for the improvements or not.

  81. Matt says:

    Yes, but the chief has a military commission and I don’t see Adama letting him out of it anytime soon. If the chief tries to leave his post he could be charged with desertion.

  82. Cavatar says:

    True…

    But he could do much of his campaining unoffically while doing president approved union work. And if he wins, his military stanging is void. Also, he does not have a commission. Remember he is an enlisted man.

  83. Matt says:

    Well I do not think there is a write in candidate option in the Galactica world and it is hard to keep a secret like that in a fleet of only 40,000.

  84. Matt says:

    Yes, but if you remember when the Chief left Galactica for New Caprica he had to ask Adama for permission.

  85. Cavatar says:

    That is ture there. If he however would not let the Chief run just becasue he felt that he could beat Roslin, then that goes to some of our theories about how corrupt they have become.

  86. Matt says:

    Thats a good point, well i am heading to bed, so i will be back to debate this later tonight.

  87. Cavatar says:

    Will try and be on…good night.

  88. Cavatar says:

    Vodkamartiniup…

    Things here are not run that way…someone however was impersonating athenor. If it was not you then I appoligse for your name being run through the mud.

    I dont know who is doing it, I just wish they stop.

    Cavatar

  89. vodkamartiniup says:

    cool i understand and thank you for responding back to me. i had no idea what was happening this morning. i only post from work and so i wasnt on last night. P.S. i am going to watch my use of … from now on lol. have a good day all.
    P.S.S. i thought some of you may like some tech stuff i found on the web
    http://www.tecr.com/galactica/

    http://www.tecr.com/galactica/

    let me know what you think. i really found them interesting

  90. cylonaccountant says:

    cavatar and matt you make very good points about the cheif. there seems to be alot of tennsion there. in one episode, adama and he box, then adama saves his life in the leaky cargo area, and then in the very next episode, adama threatens to shoot his wife. i wonder if the chief will have any more visions of earth like on the alge planet?

  91. suzanne says:

    sean, you need to add one more to your list:
    roslin gives baltar a trial that she wants him to lose, which is a sign of her corruption by power. she views the trial as a formality, which you can see in how they pick romo as a defense attorney for baltar. (roslin thinks romo is a fool – this was a good point that i have seen posted elsewhere). she (and adama and tory) should be recused from picking the defense attorney- it should be the job of the quorum, who, if they still exist, might have very different opinions.

    ryan, interesting point about the roslin & adama points of view. i completely agree. however, we are in a bad state of affairs if the military functions as the check on presidential power, rather than a legislative (quorum) or judiciary (does not seem to exist in bsg)
    i wonder that if these branches were stronger, that roslin might never have gone so far in her power grab, and might have won the election against baltar.

    i think that it is the adama roslin dynamic that has changed the most, it has almost reversed itself since the first season. adama brings the fleet back together after almost dying. then, beginning with the cain incident, adama starts to take the moral high ground, while roslin slips into increasingly murky moral territory. adama would not have approved the hera kidnapping plot, so he was not told of it. in season 3, his moral high ground is slipping; his resistance of roslin’s decisions become more passive- he uses helo and tyrrol to do his dirty work. i wonder how much of adama’s moral high ground is related to his abiltiy to listen to sharon, to try to find common ground with the cylons. it is humans who have found common ground with the cylons that seem to be the most able to see what is morally right (not sure how baltar or starbuck will fit in with this, but adama, helo, tyrrol,….ooh, is there some human + cylon = balanced being of the future.)

    sorry for the long post…

  92. vodkamartiniup says:

    once again…it wasnt me…now my posts are blocked..did for one moment anyone think that

  93. vodkamartiniup says:

    ok ok ok sorry i am back up now have a good morning everyone. my boss is walking around, let me get some work done here. i will check in later

  94. Chuck says:

    vodkamartiniup: I suppose it could theoretically happen, but we’ve never come across a situation where we’ve removed a post or tried to block a user. Your posts had a few links in ’em and they triggered our comment spam filter. They were placed in moderation — and sometimes it takes a day or two for us to catch ’em and approve ’em.

    Obviously your links were fine — but you should see some of the tons of junk the filter keeps from overwhelming us all.

    Anyway, just wanted to let you know that your posts aren’t blocked.

  95. vodkamartiniup says:

    chuck you are most kind thank you

  96. Mack-the-Mike says:

    The question of the legality of the Presidential succession that Cavatar brought up at 3:12 a.m. is an interesting one. I suspect that the show will not pursue that line, just because they haven’t set it up yet. Neither Baltar or his lawyer have made that claim. I agree that Baltar knows well and good that he won’t be allowed to actually serve as President again, but as a way of calling into question his detention and trial I think claiming to be Pres would be a good tactic.

    If a similar situation happened under the U.S. Constitution I think Roselin would be VP and Acting Pres. Zarek became acting Pres when Baltar was captured by the enemy. Zarek’s resignation was valid, and Roslin’s appointment as VP was approved by “Congress” and therefore valid. When Baltar showed up, the Cabinet would have to declare him unable to serve thus making Vice President Roselin the Acting President. Of course, BSG-world doesn’t seem to have a Cabinet. And the Articles of Colonization aren’t identical to the U.S. Constitution.

    Bottom line for me is that none of the characters in the show are questioning her legitimacy as Pres, even when they think she’s abusing her power.

    As to Suzanne’s point about the military serving as a check on Presidential power, I want to keep my powder dry for the upcoming discussion of “Pegasus” (if it wins the pole), but it was a bit odd that Roselin didn’t take a more overt role in the Adama/Cain power struggle, which may suggest that the political leadership has less authority over the military in the Tweleve Colonies than in the U.S.A. The real-world precedent for that would be Turkey, where the military does play a direct role in the checks and balances.

  97. Rorlins says:

    Mack:

    Anyone with a lot of guns is a potential check to authority.

    Just my take….

    Rorlins

  98. ShinyFab says:

    Rorlins, considering the relationship between Adama and Roslin I would say Roslin would need to ask for mass assasinations or blowing up a few ships because they didn’t agree with her before he used military force against her. I think his closeness to her and the reminder of what happened when Tigh declared martial law would probably inhibit that course of action unless there was a major debacle. Sure the military has the guns, but Roslin has Adama.

  99. Rorlins says:

    Well yah, I was commenting on the statement above about how Turkey is the only primary example where the military “checks” the power of the other branches with the personal belief that any larged armed group is a check to any executive or legislative branch.

    Heck, the US of A started off with a large armed check against the executive branch….. now granted, we’ve mutated a bit culturly since the days of the state militias and what not, but….

    Rorlins

  100. Matt says:

    Do we know how long Colonial Presidential terms are or even if they have term limits? I mean if they are 4 years terms like our own then Roslin will be facing another election in 2 year or less. I wonder who will challenge her. The only credible candidate out their, that I think has a chance of beating Roslin would be the chief but I don’t think Adama would let him out of his military commission again like he did during the New Caprica ordeal.

  101. Chuck says:

    Matt: Wow — if you consider that most of the action over the past few episodes is happening almost in real time (or quicker), that’s a pretty long presidency.

  102. Athenor says:

    I don’t know if the show runs real time or not. The Pegasus incident was 6 months out from New Caprica. We obviously got the 1 year jump, and then a few months of occupation after that. Since then, things seem to have more or less been running “real time”, or at least approximations of that.

    It is a good point, though. There’s just so much about Caprican law that we don’t know.

  103. frank says:

    Yea I agree, there is also so much about the govt we don’t understand, We haven’t seen the Quorum, now granted it is probably too boring for TV, but at least a mention of them would be nice. And more Zarek!!!

  104. Chuck says:

    Frank: Somehow I get the feeling we’re going to see a lot more of Zarek in the next few weeks.

  105. Matt says:

    I hope we see more of Zarek; I love him you never really know what his true intensions are.

  106. cylonsmegma says:

    hey chuck i agree zarek will play a much bigger role in future episodes. can i ask a dumb question? is the actor that played the old starbuck still around. It would be cool if more of the old cast (those who are alive) made cameos.

  107. Matt says:

    I would sure love to see a Roslin v Chief matchup for the Presidency, though i do not believe we are going to ever see another Presidential Election in the Galactica World. She offically though is serving out the rest of Baltar term just like she carried out the rest of Adar’s term correct?

  108. 13th Cylon says:

    Cylonsmegma- I don’t think Dirk Benedict would EVER appear on this BSG. He has been a huge critic of the show, especially in having Starbuck be a woman. I think that Katee Sackhoff and him kind of went at it once. Of course, now that she’s not on the show anymore, who knows. I did read a thing on his blog where he kept referring to her as “Stardoe”. Crazy old man.

  109. The actor who playes Starbuck in TOS is Dirk Benedict, and he’s gone on record to say that he totally disapproves of Starbuck being a girl. Check this out:
    http://www.dirkbenedictcentral.com/home/articles-readarticle.php?nid=5
    Somehow I doubt that he’s interested in being a part of the RDM BSG.

  110. frank says:

    I think Ole Dirk was on a sci-fi movie this past weekend, wasn’t he?

  111. ShinyFab says:

    I see what you mean, Rorlins. Sorry ’bout the confusion.

  112. Zigdon says:

    Athenor (hopefully) said: “… Since then, things seem to have more or less been running “real time”, or at least approximations of that.”

    Didn’t they say it was two weeks since Kara’s death in the last episode? I also seem to remember (but don’t have the actual citations) that some weeks were longer than others… Bottom line – never got the impression we’re running in real time.

    As for the various impressions – I’m not sure how easy it would be to implement, but since the emails in the posts are required, and yet hidden, couldn’t the site reject anyone who is posting with an email different than an earlier post? Or at least mark as potential spam for moderation?

  113. Matt says:

    Zigdon,

    Chuck emailed me about the imposter posts today because someone also was making false posts with my name. He said they are “in the process of working out a procedure to handle the situation.” So hopefully we wont be having this problem anymore.

  114. frank says:

    Hey Matt, Were you posting last night?, or were we posting with the Impostor?

  115. Matt says:

    Frank,

    No that was me last night, there was only one imposter post for me and that was at 1:57 this afternoon. Chuck has deleted all the imposter posts made in mine and Athenor’s name though.

  116. Apparently, someone’s been posting under ToasterChick’s name too. This sucks.

  117. The 13th Cylon says:

    Well, I’m always ready for a cheesy joke, and in light of all the recent imposters- “They look and feel like GWC posters. Some are programmed to think they are posters. There are many copies. And they have a Plan.”

    And whoo! Chuck’s getting this worked out. We can have a quickly cancelled spinoff podcast, “Chuck, PI”. What a nightmare this was becoming, though.

    And back to Dirk Benedict, yes he was in that crappy SciFi Original movie. They’re always about big fake looking CGI monsters or big fake looking CGI doomsday craaap. It’s funny how their shows are so successful in getting a solid fanbase (look at the Stargates) and they have such cheap movies. I love how Richard Hatch has joined the new BSG (and really developed an awesome character- who doesn’t love seeing Tom on screen?!) and it makes Dirk’s antics look even more childish.

  118. Cavatar says:

    I really hope this imposter is found or at least stopped.

    Any chance we might get an extra podcast with discussion of the Roslin presidency before Sunday’s episode???

    I really think the McLaughlin Group idea for the off season was a GREAT ONE!!!

    I wanted to add that I first found you guys around podcast 3 or 4, and then began commenting sometime after that. I am so happy that I did, and that I have enjoyed posting here and talking with everyone. Even if my girlfriend thinks of it as one my many dork habits, speaking of which I will put together model ships from star trek from time to time. Does anyone know of a Pegasus model (resin or otherwise) that are out there? There is a new and old Galactica but not a new Pegasus.

    Thanks again to everyone who has made this a great place to post BSG ideas.

    Cavatar

  119. Cavatar says:

    Vodkamartiniup,

    I have been to the sight before and found it a great place of material. Thanks for sharing with everyone here. I am in your corner man, sorry about all the craaaaaaaap that happened with the imposter.

    Cavatar

    “Paid for by BSG fans to elect someone other than Laura Roslin…who has never been elected as it is.”

  120. Sean O'Hara says:

    13th. Pensonally I really can’t think of Dirk in anything else other than the A-Team…I saw that first when I was a kid and loved it. Then I saw Battlestar the orginal series. I prefer our Starbuck now 😉

  121. Ryan says:

    How does she find new nice clothing like that. Did she see some woman with it on, have her thrown in jail, confescate her clothes and then have her put on an air lock or something like that? But hey, being president should come with some perks.

  122. Ryan says:

    some how my last comment ended up in the wrong thread. Now you all think i am an idiot. Sorry.

  123. The 13th Cylon says:

    Yeah, the A-Team is a pretty fun show. I’ve only seen it a few times, but it’s kinda fun in a whacky way. Anything with Mr. T (I’m restraining from saying the line…) is good stuff.

    I respect the old BSG for what is for us now and no disrespect to the fans, but I’ve tried to watch it several times on Netflix and just can’t make it past the 3rd disk. I had to get a paper towel to wipe off all the cheese oozing from my TV. It certainly hasn’t aged well.

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