If you’re not already attending a Frak Party — or hosting one! –join us here for the GWC online ‘party. Or hell, even if you are watching with friends, post their comments, too! There’s room for everyone, though you’ll have to bring your own snacks…
And, since we record the podcast right after the episode, we’ll check in here first to see what you had to say in real-time. Sweet.
See you here tonight!
PS: All indications seem to point to some pretty significant movement in the main storyline tonight, which always gets us all going. I’m really excited about tonight’s episode and can’t wait to see it — even though it means that my weekend’s almost over…
last week before spring break, and then i can watch live. i might do a ‘cast with one of my friends, a galactica fan, during the next weeks ep.
Should be in for a great ride tonight. See everyone there.
Anyone have any predictions about tonight’s episode???
I predict that Leoben will use creepy mind games on Starbuck. We’ll also see more of those Eye of Jupiter paintings. Maybe we’ll get some answers to the big 3 questions of Season 3 (Who is a Cylon/ dead/ finds Earth). I doubt that though.
And tomorrow is the start of Spring Break for me and I’m off work tomorrow! Great way to start the week for me.
Oh yeah, let me go on the record for saying that the “Bonus Clip(!)” will be a complete waste of my time. I’ll be interested to see the rest of the clip, but like with all the others, I won’t really care enough to get online to check it. Also, the text message poll will make me laugh (“Is the Cylon God a daggit?” A- Yes, B- No, C- I don’t know). lol
I think you are right about the big three questions…I have a hunch that Starbuck might both a Cylon and die!
I’ll be disappointed if the Cylons turn out to be any one in the regular cast. Unless they pulled something amazing out of their butts it just woudn’t make any sense.
I dont want to see it either, but I dont think that they will want to make it a secondary character. I also have great fatih in this production crew to give us something that is a suprise.
The surprise will be all in one in the last min of the last epsiode. Starbuck finds earth, dies and wakes up in goo……The big three all in one. Holds warer with D’anna’s apology also.
I’m not advocating the theory, just throwing it out there. I don’t think they will go there with either Baltar or Sarbuck …..more likely to be Dee or Anders.
Does anyone know how many episodes there are to the end of the season?
Dee or Anders is also another good possibility in my opinion…as little as it is worth anyways.
10 minutes. Can’t sit still! Tonight’s definitely going to be a good one. Starbucks not a cylon, but somehow “dies” and Leoben rescues her inconspicuously.
Cavatar, there are only three more weeks of BSG left after tonight! RDM said in his podcast it’ll be a rocket through to the end.
Wouldn’t make sense. They appeared in a four thousand year old temple. Only works if they were/are biological Cylons. I’d love to find out that the 13th colony is the original Cylon race. The mechanical Cylon would have been named after them out of a twisted sense of humor. I’d love to have a sect that doesn’t want a damn thing to do with the colonies and Cylons.
About that time….let’s kick the tires and light the FTL drive!
Thanks Joe…here we go.
Here’s what will happen tonight-
Starbuck flies through a wierd vortex and gets stranded on an isolated planet with a cylon centurian. She reprograms the cylon and makes it her friend. She meets up with a mysterious human dude. They hook up. She has a kid. The other cylons find the planet, and Starbuck and her cylon friend build a ship and fire their kid off in the direction of earth.
10 years later…
The Galactica finds earth. It is the year 1980. Starbuck’s kid is a young genius called “Dr. Z”. Enter the flying motorcycles and super-scouts…
So they are doing the Farah Fawcett body painting thing
Starbuck just said every “god damn night” It should have been Gods’ damn night.
well if viper pilot doesn’t work out she could always paint.
Dreaming, halucinating…..or projecting.
Okay….Starbuck has official lost her mind. Nightmares of Creepy Leoben and visions of her “not-daughter”…
Maybe this oracle is one of the 5.
that is one frakked up woman
Wow….what an opening teaser.
Ah, perchance that was young Kara Thrace…callsign; STARBUCKIE?
hey hey….we gonna have vipers
Adeldia says that the soothsayer looks a lot like the images of the sybils from the roof of the Sistine Chapel
That wasn’t her daughter, it was herself as a child. It was the same girl that had her hands in teh door.
That paint scene was pretty intense, lol
Thinking about the same thing Saber…
Not her not-daughter…it was herself.
Does this prove Kara is not Cylon? Birthmother and childhood?
Hey HOT DOG is her bunkmate! LOL
I prefered Amanda Plummer as an Oracle, this one did nothing for me.
we might get to fly this week if chief will allow it.
Leoben is Starbuck real father…that’s just all kinds of not right.
They were flying through clouds and blue sky. Earth?
It might prove she is not a cylon but how do we not know those were planted memories or that she is not a hybrid
you might be on to something Joe!!
I think at this point it would not be good to pull someone out of the “blue” and make them one of the 5…..got to be someone in the base cast.
What I can’t understand is that if the fleet has all these “oracles” (this one and the one we saw on New Caoprica) why doesnt Rosdama get one of them onto Galatica to tell them the way to earth – they seem to be right about everything else.
Did I see the glass back on landing bay….I thought they made the deck operational again?
Good to see apollo can still fly, Apollo the great flying lawyer!!
This is gonna be a good one! Whoo! Vipers in atmo and awesome blue skies. That all just looked so cinematic.
So Aliegh – what are you saying…we have a blade runner skin job here in Starbuck?
Special effects were really nice, amazing what they manage to do with the budget they have.
The glass was there. I guess they never officially got around to it?
Too many COMMERCIALS
interesting……Did she see a Cylon..if not..what hit her?
Looked that way Cavatar.
Good point Saber, maybe all these oracles should take over Command!!
Saberhawk, I was thinking the same thing! How are all these oracles on the fleet? Perhaps they knew that all of this was going to happen and got on the nearest ship with an FTL drive.
….Planted memories so she does not know she is a skin job….err cylon….
the show is already a third over…wow that was fast!
LOL 13th – that is a good one.
Hey…maybe she was projecting. (kewl to whoever had the idea first)
good one 13. a better question maybe why the oracle didn’t let the fleet know that the cylons would jump into new caprica a year later. The whole concept of the oracle is a little sketchy. They need it to move the plot forward but they cause a lot of “why ” questions.
What a frakkin stupid text question!
I think this episode will have us talking for a long time to come, Galactica is back!!
Yes! An awesomely bad text message question! Really USA Cable/ Sci Fi, if you want my $.99, you’re gonna have to try harder than that.
Really, what’s up with the meaningless fraking polls?
Agreed Frank, already better than the last three weeks all rolled into one.
hey gang, they are talking about resupply mission, did they say what is being resupplied? Tylium, water, food?
Those moments with the two Adama’ss were sweet. Meaningful goodbyes?
Does anyone else get a bad feeling about Starbuck survung this episode?
I swear to Gods, I’m writing to NBC about this stupid-ass question thing.
Should Hot Dog put hydrocortisone on his crotch rash?
a. Yes, as soon as possible
b. No, hydrocortisone is in such short supply
c. Yes, only after Doc Cottle cusses him out for being so stupid
que soap opera music.
Ack!!! The love tetrahedron returns!!!
Ohhh Ohhh Browncoat I chose B no C no Z!
Amazing. I just got to watching the show, and for the looks of it, I have not missed much. There are only 15 mins left…
no wonder starbuck is soooo frakked up
That is some intense drama, dunno where it is going though.
“That’s all I’ll ever be” line was pretty dramatic.
Rich you missed A LOT!!!
What the Frak? I swear, if they leave this storyline hanging until next season….
Sam was such a good character, I hope he doesn’t turn out to be the guy we see for 10 seconds every three or four weeks!
Rich, you did miss a little, we actually saw some vipers flying!!!!!!!
Starbuck’s a model citizen compared to her mom. What a bitter old daggit.
Was anyone else thinking that Hotdog watching Starbuck was kind of creepy? lol
13th cylon, yes! Hot Dog was creepy. hahaha
It will show again at midnight. too bad there is no frak “after” party.
I don’t think so 13, I would watch her too!!
Sam has also been wearing the same black button up shirt for the past few episodes. Someone needs to get that man a new shirt!
Some of us will still be here Rich.
Damn that viper takes a long time to fall.
you be a guy on a ship and then have the hot woman in the bunk next to you start moaning and squirming in her sleep and see how much you stare. I’m surprised he wasn’t drooling.
by missing something i meant it doesn’t look like we know any of the final fives, or Starbuck’s special destiny.
I was thinking the same thing Retro – she will be through the little mini black hole and back before this projection is done.
She’s the cylon!
If she dies…how do we bring anders back into the show???
OH MY FRAKIN’ GODS!!!!! DID THAT JUST HAPPEN?!?!?!?
holy fraK. did we just see what we just saw?
Guess she is a Cylon after that……otherwise she is off the show.
She went in…interesting choice of words.
They can’t leave us hanging like this…what’s next?
I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE PODCAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was it!?
I’m onboard with starbuck being a cylon now. maybe the swirly rainbow circle is what they see when they come back to life.
now what did that model ship do to deserve that?
All in all, a damn fine episode, but still more questions than answers. I wonder if we have seen the last of Starbuck… I doubt.
Next week seems like fun, Baltar centric. 🙂
I really hate this geico comerical that is on right now.
That’s it! WOW. Something is amiss. They can’t kill off Starbuck! WTF! I’m pissed!
Now if she is a Cylon…does that mean there is still a death to come on top of this or what that it?
Holy crap, Saber she has to be a cylon, they wouldn’t really have her off the show, holy frakkin frakky frak, I can’t even type
Anyone want to star up a frack party chat room???
That’s it for Starbuck until 2008. With the trial coming, she gets an extra three weeks vacation.
Wow. I got pretty teary eyed right there. The show’s not going to be the same. Not at all.
RDM did say that from next week’s opening forward will be one actor short.
She ejected. She’ll find something below the storm. She was being prepared for something and I don’t think dieing was it.
Aurora.. Goddess of rebirth. That’s about the only hope I can see for bringing her back but HOW??
From Wikipedia: Aurora renews herself every morning at dawn and flies across the sky, announcing the morning’s arrival. Her siblings consist of a brother (the sun), and a sister (the moon)……
ok.. So we know Lee. Who would be Luna?
If she ejected I thought she didn’t have a chute
Nothing’s the same anymore.
That was annoying! How can they leave us hanging like this?! Something screwy is going on. So that wasn’t really Leoben? Was it real? So many questions. RDM better not be late with his podcast this week! Can’t wait for the GWC podcast!
Galactica is back, wow, they really got us back this week!!!
Ok using the Tivo I need to ask the question did Apollo see the cylon raider or not. He said visual but not what he had a visual of. someone rewind it and tell me what they think.
Looks like I was three weeks and 59 min too early on predicting her death…..I’m still bummed. I don’t see how you rationalize away the viper blowing up and it not being Kara unless it was the Raider.
I want to go back and freeze frame the shot before that from Lee’s cockpit. I could have sworn I saw two ships in front of him. Did anyone else see that?
I know what you mean, 13th. I’m hoping you’re right Brother Boomer. Otherwise, all I can say is… SHIT!!!! (Sorry, everyone.)
Man, I’m feeling bad right now. Just like I was feeling when Kat died. No one’s frakkin’ safe on this show.
I’d rather she be dead than be a Cylon, though.
I’m not near the tivo to check but I was pretty sure there were 2 ships. Maybe the exploded one wasn’t Kara?
Even if she ejected, she would be crushed, same as her viper, from the pressure differential. So unless she can somehow fly without a viper, she has no shot in hell of survival.
They’re not going to do a silly redo of “You Can’t Go Home Again”. They’re not going to pull one over on us like that.
But now the question is what now for Starbuck? The BSG version is gone, but might she try to help out the Colonials later on? That’s 2/3 of the big questions, will she do the hat trick?
I saw it too Saber, I re watched the scene, Apollo Had Kara’s viper, and the Cylon in his window.
That’s what I’m thinking Magycian. She whacked the raider and that was the explosion. Otherwise – it GOO time!!!! and I’m not talking Mr. MaGoo.
I can’t get on to the SciFi forums for BSG. Is it possible that there are too many people on them right now and the server crashed?
Yes.. I could have sworn I saw 2 ships from Lee’s POV, however I am pretty confident that it is Starbuck’s viper that exploded. If she’s this important to the storyline then we’ll see her again.
Aftre all.. there are many copies.
The Sci Fi server crashes all the time after a big episode like a season opener or finale.
Interesting to see the metaphor of the raider leading Starbuck through the storm.
The explosion was the viper, its clear to see, holy frak, This is gonna take some getting over, this is more emotional than my last divorce!!!!
There’s no way Starbuck is dead. They’re just frakkin with us.
Getting ready for tomato tossing..
She gets reborn and is Male? Dirk Benedict finally going to show up for the show?
The would Really Frak with Lee’s mind.
Is Starbuck one of the Final Five cylons?
She’ll be back, I’ll bet good money on it. We still dont know what her special destiny was.
Wouldn’t be surprised if she plays a role at the season cliffhanger.
Anyway, that was a fine hour of TV, should have recorded it.
I saw the second ship too. Kara’s ship def exploded. Rewatching in 50 for us non-tivo types.
Kirby, hard to say, got to be sure she will be back, but not sure how, if she is a cylon that would be a real frakkin cop out.
Chuck, Audra, Sean – Don’t hold yourself to an hour. There is just WAY to much to talk about and I want to listen to your thoughts.
All I have to say is now it all makes sense why Lucy Lawless character (I forget her number/name) was apologizing to one of the final five. Likely she was apologizing to Kara/Starbuck for the way they treated her on New Caprica, what with the whole imprisonment with Leo and such. If they had known she was one of the five, well… I can see why she would be sorry for letting Leo do that to Kara.
Might Starbuck’s destiny be to lead the fleet to Earth? It would kind of explain the trinket she gave being on the front of Adama’s model ship- or maybe I’m reading way too much into that stuff… It would be quite a destiny to have. And Starbuck shouldn’t be aftraid of dying at all, she’s a Cylon for frak’s sake! Get used to it, hon.
DID ANYONE NOTICE that the conversation between Kara and her mom was a direct reference to a previous conversation between Lee and Adama?
KARA: How can you be sure?
MOM: Because you are my daughter.
LEE: How can you be so sure?
ADAMA: Because you are my son.
I don’t remember what episode the Lee/Adama convo was in but immediately when Kara said that I thought of it, and I knew what her mom was going to reply. Does this mean Lee also has a “Destiny?”
At first I did think she died but after reading these comments I’m definitely thinking she either ejected or will be “rebirthed” somehow. I don’t think she’s a cylon though.
Can’t wait for the podcast!!!
LOL Frank, if this is more emotional than your last divorce, no wonder you divorced! 🙂 Just kidding.
I like that the show is willing to take such a plunge. It’s almost as dramatic as the ending of season 2. Nothing can top that. I just hope she doesnt come back as some spirit or ghost, that would be kinda tacky.
I still don’t buy the theory she is a Cylon UNLESS she is a hybrid somehow. OR she never really had a mother and that whole series of “memories” was fed to her. There’s so many possibilities. There’s the “she’s dead and that’s all there is to it”. There’s the “she’s a Cylon with a special destiny”. There’s the “she ejected and was picked up by the Cylons”. Argh!
Oh wow. Starbuck dead or MIA??? Hmmm.. if you remeber the TOS, Starbuck was separated from the Fleet and sent back some woman bearing an “oracle” type child. Could this Ron Moore following Glen Larson’s plan?
Viper exploded but she was already on the Cylon ship. The light in her face could have been the Cylon ship getting close enough for the tranfer.
She’ll survive one way or another…that’s what wrters are for.
GWC crew, you have got some splainin to do, you have got to calm us all down, come up with some theory that doesn’t make starbuck a cylon.
tough work ahead for you, perhaps you should set up an emotional crisis command center, hire some therapists, not oracles.
The only reason I know this is because it’s one of my favorite episodes. The Hand God. the one where they get all that Tyllium. Adama and Lee in the hangar deck alone.
Ressa, the ep was “Hand of God”
Killing Starbuck not cool because they left a whole mystery. One she wants to take her own life and unstable. To bipolar and then the Lee Oban beat. They should of at least should us her waking up pissed off and destructive in the goo. If the Deena character can get boxed for being a minor pain in ass how fast are the Kara Thrace. Lee Obano is gooing to have to keep her under lock and key in a base ship.
And that’s a damn good lighter.
All I can say is wow. Can’t wait to hear what you guys have to say in the podcast.
Yes, Adama’s lighter is great.
Too bad about the ship. He’s been building that since before the Mini-Series!
Looking forward to see what happens.
When they were stuck on New Caprica I was thinking that they could never pull a rescue that would be believable, that they would use some cop out like Star Trek with some mumbo jumbo technical crap. They proved me wrong, I was spectacular, dramatic and believable. I trust the writers will pull it off.
How many months do we have to wait for season 4 again? ARRRRGGGHHH!
I have always thought that Anders was the one that Number 3 recognized and apologized to because of what happened in “Downloaded”. But Troy makes a very good point about D’Anna’s reasons for apologizing if indeed it was Starbuck. Maybe the Final Five aren’t held to the same rules as the Seven in terms of how long they’ve been alive. The seven models so far do not appear to have grown up, rather they appear as is. Even Sharon was given fake memories but did not grow up from being a child. Maybe the Five DID grow up from childhood and have normal lives up until now.
Wow. That was one of the best hours of television I’ve ever seen.
I can’t believe she died even if she is a cylon. So is that what her mother was preparing her for? Being a cylon? I thought cylons didn’t have childhoods. Were those all implanted memories?
Well, Starbuck was awesome. SO SAY WE ALL!
So say we all.
For now I am going with the “she was picked up by the Heavy Raider” theory. We all know how much RDM loves mindf*&cking us so maybe that’s all this is. Have everyone think she’s either dead or a Cylon and then have her rescued. I don’t know.
I wonder if we’ll get to see Lee put a picture of her next to Kat’s…
I was nice but a somewhat weird choice to have the admiral’s reaction to close the show. The destruction of the ship was unexpected but a nice touch.
themosh, I agree. She ejected, was picked up by a raider and she goes through her destiny thing.
If Starbuck HAD ejected, which she didn’t, wouldn’t she fry like a little meteor thingy? The air around the ship was on fire and I don’t see how she wouldn’t have burned up either.
wow, that was really crazy. I want to say two things.
First, the three of you are all great at watercooler.
Second, i don’t think that kara is a cylon; but there can be so many possibilities it’s useless to predict. One thing is certain however, Kara being “prepared” to face what she does at the conclusion of the episode would seem anticlimactic if all the hype leading up to it just culminates in her death.
at least it was better than the Tasha Yar death episode…which, ironically, was on G4 this weekend.
actually it was a good episode, but I was expecting a two episode arc for something this big…
What was with Lee’s “Yeah, Dee and I are great…. NO, BETTER THAN GREAT. YEAH.” suuuuuure
Starbuck on a basestar…let the wackiness ensue.
First off a few things. A friend and I were Tivo’ing it and we wound it back. There is a third ship that can be clearly seen; you see it right before Apollo makes contact again. As for whether or not she ejects, is beamed up, dies, etc. there’s not a good view (as far as we could tell). However, I think we’ll find that she’s not so easy to kill. If I find time to put together a comprehensive mythology and explanations at some point, I’ll try and explain what all is happening. In short though, I’d put a solid amount of money on the cylon reveal for this season be Lee “Apollo” Adama and that it will come out in the trial. Leoben is a tricky model who spins a number of lies and tries to deceive; however, I’m sure that his lies are woven with the truth. When he said Adama is a cylon, he meant it. He never stated which Adama though. more later hopefully.
I think Starbuck is an angel…
Oh man Caleb you’re frakking right!!!!
OR, since Dee is now an “Adama,” SHE should be a cylon! Hehehe
So what are you saying Caleb? That the toasters replaced actual people with alternates? That would explain why the identity of the Final Five is hidden.
Previously seen (but not really): Starbuck grabs the handle and ejects and is scooped up by the Cylon.
The seven don’t know who the final five are. They’ve already established this. RDM said Cavil is the only one with any clue about it.
I think it was a great episode and I love what we are left with. I think the reactions of the crew especially Adama were fantastic. Now the complex part is dealing with what this all means. I think the idea of Starbuck being a cylon would contradict pretty much the entire show so I think how we bail out of her death is going to be very tricky for the writing team. All in all it was truly one of the best episodes this season especially because my favorite Cylon Leoben was prominently featured. I do also think this episode confirmed my theory about the role of the religious people of the colonies and the creation of the Cylons. I think the Oracles obviously were the ones who really programmed the Cylons.
I just Tivo’d the scene where we see the view from Apollo’s point of view – that Cyclon ship was pulling up and away from the “harddeck”. I am willing to entertain the idea that Starbuck is with Leoban.
Does anyone know what the text next to the “Kara Eye” says (in her apartment)? Is it something meaningful, or is it a grocery list?
I found this on a aintitcoolnews thread by a guy named berserkrl…
In the last episode of Galactica 1980, we learn that the original Starbuck was marooned on a planet with only a Cylon for company, until one of the angels from the Ship of Lights showed up and declared Starbuck had some special destiny. Info about subsequent scripts that were planned but not filmed is that Starbuck was going to become one of the Ship-of-Lights angel-beings himself and show up to help the Galacticans on Earth. Whatever Ron Moore has planned for the new Starbuck will no doubt differ in detail from the above, but I’m willing to bet it’s at least inspired by the above. (And won’t be the first time that he’s borrowed from Galactica 1980. After all, giving the Cylons human form was first introduced — very badly, needless to say — in G80. And the cylon/human hybrid baby may have been modeled on G80’s angel/human hybrid baby, Dr. Zee — which was incidentally said to be Starbuck’s, albeit not biologically.) A related point: in the original series it was revealed that the Cylons had some past connection with the humans’ history/mythology — namely that Count Iblis had, centuries ago, provided the original voice for the Cylons’ Imperious Leader. Once again details are different here, but I keep remembering Sharon’s saying “we know more about your religion than you do” (and why the hell have none of the colonials asked her to elaborate??!?), and D’Anna asking “could there be a connection between your gods and our God?” as well as the fact that the final five Cylons are somehow connected with the humans’ Eye of Jupiter. Seems to me that all this is Moore’s variation on the Iblis idea.
I too am working on a comprehensive mythology thing. It will be interesting to see how our theories match up and/or differ Caleb. Looking forward to it.
jimtothehum, In TOS, cylons weren’t created by humans. They were an alien species. In BSG, the cylons were created a mere 50 years previous. Something weird must have happened during the cylons 40 years of silence away from humans.
I would also like to give a shoutout to the Starbuck apartment radio. I have the silver version. It’s a great radio and alarm clock and it can be yours for around $50 off Amazon.com by a company named TEAC. I got it when I redid my room this past winter. I call it my Pegasus room, dark blue walls, glass shelves, and even a few huge framed BSG promo posters. It’s absolutely geeky, but it’s my room. lol
Head Baltar, Head Leoban, Head Ex-Wife. I’m convinced cosmic radiation causes Schizophrenia.
Whew, that paint scene is just hot. Reminds me of ghost. (rewatch)
If we are to assume we were seeing from Apollo’s perspective when he said he had “visual” then he definitely saw the raider:
and then all three ships are visible (again from Apollo’s perspective):
Hey 13, does the radio have a name, or a model number? I may get one as a tribute to the fallen starbuck!!
What are the chances that this is all just a dream?????
TalosBlue, if it is a dream, I am writing my congressman, senator, anybody who will listen, to get them to investigate whatever the writers are smokin.
TalosBlue, I hope to wake up and Dee and Billy will be married. Starbuck will be stable, HotDog will be Rash-Free. I hope it is a dream. It’s great TV all the way…
for some screen caps of Starbuck scene go to flickr dot com slash photos slash ilagentesegreto
On the way home from watching the episode with some friends, I was thinking about the craziest possible explanation. I was ordered by my girlfriend to post this here:
What if the entire central Human players (Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Roslin & Baltar) are the 5 unknown cylons, and the whole deal is that they unknowingly work with the other cylons to basically herd the human race back to earth, re-teaching them the value of life and humanity.
As “Leoban” said – This has happened before, and it will happen again.
Frank- You might be able to find it cheaper elsewhere, but there it is. That’s the “Starbuck” apartment version.
Good theory Ryan, it would explain a good bit.
If it’s not a dream… I am seriously bummed-out!!!!!1
That is awesome 13, thanks!!
No problem. I love that the alarm feature isn’t some horrible alarm like they used on today’s episode. It’s actually just a regular deal that wakes you up to the radio, which on mine is set to the local classical music station. lol
Ryan’s hypothesis is plausible. Interesting, humans being taught humanity by machines….. I like it. Baltar is a little to self-serving to be one of the final five?????
This brings serious problems to the love square- unless there are multiple Starbucks (of course THAT would bring serioius problems to the love square as well).
So the “Leobon-guide” said to Starbuck that he was preparing her to go to the place between life and death. The place between life and death is where D’Anna (#3) was visiting, and in this realm, was getting glimpses of the Final Five.
“Leobon-guide” also said that people should not confuse the messenger with the message–which means that the truth of everything is not so much had by one side or the other (Cylon or human), but rather, that there is a deeper truth playing out in spite of, or through, the character players.
My faith in BSG–totally restored!!!!!!!!!!
Haven’t read the comments yet, I’ll do that now. Just finished watching
the episode. Yeow. What an episode! Now THAT is Battlestar Galactica
at its prime. Top performancea, all around. Yum yum yum.
Rich, to steal one from the Sci Fi board, this Leoben is now called “The Ghost of Christmas Past”.
Dude, i was just gonna post that! This episode draws many parallels from A Christmas Carol. Destiny, flashbacks, angels of great power. Kinda weird, lol.
You there, boy. What day is this?
Why it’s Colonial Day!
There’s absolutely no way that RDM and TPTB pulled together a storyline so complex – involving so many different episodes, storyarcs and references, just to kill Kara off decisively and without purpose. Something will come off this, I know it.
While my first inclination was to think ‘Ok, she’s a cylon’ (because I
cannot fathom them getting rid of that marvelous character AND actress,
I’m back-peddling a bit – possibly because I don’t want her to be a cylon,
though, if that’s the only way Katee can be involved, I’d swing with it).
So, if she’s supposedly not going to be in the credits for the rest of the
season (and presumably, any Kara twist there is won’t be known until
next season), doesn’t that imply that the cylon reveal Has To Be Someone
I think she’s a Cylon, but she can still pop up as a guest star in later episodes. My gosh, we haven’t seen Cavil in a looong time.
Isn’t that so BSGish?! We get the grand reveal and death- only to have more questions than we did before. We can’t say they didn’t warn us though.
I got a giggle out of Hotdog watching Kara dream. Very believable (though,
it would be even more believable if he was ‘taking care of himself’ while
doing so. And yeah, creepy, but hey, in that situation, who Wouldn’t watch?
I really, really like Leoben (sp). And I love their chemistry. Yes, he’s
creepy. But it works for me (and the painting scene was hot).
Ressa, I’m with you on the Lee thing (No, we’re better than good). How
tacky was that?? Talk about a lack of sensitivity.
I liked Adama’s grief at the end, though I think I would have preferred it
if he hadn’t destroyed the ship, but was just saturated in his quiet grief.
I loved Saul’s, oh so expressive face.
Yeah, I was also thinking about ‘A Christmas Carol’ during parts, which was
a little unfortunate.
I liked the little bits showing the Kara/Helo friendship. That was the
healthiest relationship she had.
There was a brief shot of Kara’s hand flirting with what I imagine to be
the eject thingy. I’ll have to go back and re-watch. And if there really
were two birds (in addition to Lee’s), then that’s very interesting.
You know, thinking back on what Leoban was saying, it’s sounded too much
like he was implying that she’s a Cylon. I think RDM is leading us down a
little garden path of mis-direction. ARRRRRRGH. Waiting 9 months between
seasons?? ARRRRRRGH. Curse his cunning but inevitable betrayal…
I was just about to say (but Antillies beat me to it) that Starbuck is projecting, has a Head Leoben, a Head Younger Self, and a Head Mama. Cylon psychology is based on projection! Starbuck is totally cylonic!
Unless all these “Head” characters really only represent subconsciouses…. Still, it was Baltar’s Head Six that first recognized Hera crying on the ground, after never having seen her before in his life.
We knew she was going to die tonight when Adama passed her in the hall and said “what do you hear.”
Good call on the “what do you hear” John Patrick. I think there were alot of little items tonight that said she was going to die.
As to whether or not Starbuck ejected. In the scene where the viper caught fire and exploded, wasn’t the cockpit still intact?
Let’s really frak up Kara…bring her back but in the body of a Six.
I framed the viper scene and you can see Starbucks helmet still in the cockpit right up to the explosion.
Heck Retro, if you’re going to go that far, bring her back in the body of
I’m still quite a bit down about last night’s show. I have a feeling that Starbuck is one of the F5. It makes sense (although, because it made sense I didn’t like the idea).
Craaaaap. She has to be a Cylon. If not, then what is her “special destiny”? To die? Furthermore, to die in the midst of a nervous breakdown? No, she has to be a Cylon. Otherwise, the painting, the drawing, Leoben’s words, her mother’s words all mean nothing. But, then again, maybe that’s the point.
Ok, so I am definately feeling the “Starbuck is a cylon” bit. But a couple of things that may foreshadow that she is not and explain her untimely demise:
1) the whole reason she was in the storm was because she saw a cyclon ship, and if I remember correctly, Lee saw it too. So there was a ship yes?
2) We saw here noodling with the eject seat, so she was contemplating that. And I will chalk her helmet being visible in the cockpit right before the explosion as a special effects oversight, or purposeful misdirection.
3) Her windshield was cracked so we know she could survive without being crushed by the gravity of the planet or some other atmospheric force. So she could conceivably eject and survive for a brief period of time.
So either a) she is a cylon, b) she has been abducted by the cylons, or c) she is dead.
But Ron could go more spiritual in some way. She might transcend life in someway. Perhaps even jedi like? I doubt it, but Ron loves the spiritual stuff. You never know where he will take the show.
Can we call the Lee-Dualla-Anders-Starbuck-Leoben a Love Pentagon now?
All I know is that I am really depressed right now……
It’s OK TalosBlue, let it out, we are here for you, we take care of our own here, this is like a support group!
I just finished listening to the RDM podcast and it strongly implies that Starbuck is indeed dead… Not to happy about this. This is definitely going to take some adjustment. Oh, BTW the model Adama destroyed was not a prop. Good thing it was insured as it was said to cost over a 100K….
Thanks for the support. This is really frakking with me….. I just watched the episode again and I still can’t believe it. Don’t get me wrong; it was a great episode, but DAMN!!!!!!!!!
Ok, here’s a couple of theories. First, if you were going to kill Kara, couldn’t you just have had her chasing a raider instead of a heavy raider? A raider would leave no question as to the possibility that she could have been picked up. A heavy raider has passenger capacity. Perhaps a Leoben was on board the Heavy Raider and plucked Kara out of the explosion. Even the frame of her helmet in the cockpit doesn’t necessarily mean anything, perhaps she didn’t trigger her ejection seat until the moment her ship disintegrated. However unlikely it is still theorectially possible that she could have survived.
Second, I am slowly coming around to the view expressed by Ryan that the Final Five are Adama, Roslin, Baltar, Starbuck, and someone else. I don’t believe Apollo is one of them. If they are indeed Cylons they are different than the Seven because they violate all the rules applied to the Seven. Such as verifiable histories over five years past, having grown up from childhood, and the ability to have children. With all the talk in this last episode of the place between life and death, it would be interesting to know what Adama saw when he was fighting for his life after the assasination attempt.
Third, the human and Cylon religions are totally linked. I strongly believe that the Cylon God is the renegade 13th Lord of Kobol who left for earth. The twelve gods that the Colonials worship are also the archetypes for the twelve cylon skin job models. The Cylons are older than 50 years, Battlestar Wiki says for this series purpose, they’re at least 1000 years old. I will go into this in more detail when I finally finish my “Grand Unified Cylon Human Theory”.
Anyway, that’s my two cents. And I still think Anders is a Cylon.
Maybe she is a Lord of Kobol, we haven’t heard much about them for a long time. But think about it. We were first introduced to the opera house and the five figures in white on Kobol and I am not sure that we were ever conclusively told that those figures were the final five (at that time I don’t think we even knew that there was a final five, though I may be wrong). Also, the five figures are similar to the ships of light or whatever they are called from the the original series.
I don’t remember seeing any figures in that episode but I will go back and look. I do remember there being eight white banners/streamers/drapes though. I will go back and look at that too though. And I don’t mean that the twelve Lords of Kobol are literally reincarnated, rather that the Cylons based their humanoid models on them because they wanted to be closer to their creators in a religious sense. Kind of like how according to some earth religions we are made in our creator’s image. So I don’t think that Kara is literally a Lord of Kobol.
I have not had the time to read everyoneâ€™s input on this episode. Seams like we may be missing a classic SCIFI trick. Space time warp. It has been used in many SCFI shows. The main reason I question time travel is when Kara was witnessing the past with her mother it was as a spectator. Then all of a sudden she was actually there interacting with her mom. Also we think her ship disintegrated, what if it was just moving through time.
Also didnâ€™t Lee see the Cylon ship before Kara disappeared?
Whew. JUST finished with the D/L of the episode (FRAK YOU Scifi and itunes for fraking off until like two in the afternoon the TUESDAY afterwards!) Now I’ve just listened to GWC and ran through the Frak Party (which was cool, loved being able to tell what was happening by the stunned comments.)
Finally, themosh, make sure you’re looking at RDM BSG, vs. BSG TOSâ€”the backstories are quite different.
BTW, someone needs to pick up my ‘commercial blogging’ torch and apply it to (a) the assinine-call-in-question of the week, and (b) the ‘bonus’ scene.
Thanks Pike but I using RDM material only as my guide for what I think is happening. Everything points to a schism between human factions way back in the past and I believe it’s reflected by the seven vs. five split in the Cylons. I just have to poke around the Pythian prophecies and the Sacred Scrolls more to back up what I think. Basically I think some (five) of the Lords of Kobol followed the 13th Lord, at least for some of the journey to earth which is why both Cylons and humans hold places sacred both on Kobol and the signposts to earth. I had a theory a while ago about how the final five know where earth is and are helping the humans find it. I based that on how the Temple of Athena used projection that the humans were able to see to show them the constellations. Of course, that backs up what Ryan was saying earlier because four of his five (Adama, Roslin, Starbuck, and Apollo) were in the Temple and saw the map. But yes, I am careful to separate the RDM from TOS when I’m coming up with my theories.
themosh, I was refering specificly to your statement that the Cyon/s/z are more than fifty years old. That would be true in BSG TOS, but not in BSG RDM.
I’m thinking you’re remembering the years (yahren) from this (TOS) page:
Compare with the history on this (RDM) page:
(I edit BSWiki, so my ears perked up on that one 😉
“In the Re-imagined Series, Cylons are a creation of man, sentient bipedal robots used primarily for dangerous work and for wars in the early years of the Twelve Colonies, long before the Articles of Colonization united their governments.”
Pike, I’m not trying to split hairs, but this makes me think that the Cylons have been around far longer than 50 years. That above was from the second link you put up. I have the impression, perhaps mistaken, that the Articles of Colonzation have been around for at least a thousand years.