February 12, 2007

GWC Podcast #29

Surprise, surprise: it was “The Woman, King”and not “The Woman King”–and the first Helo-centric episode in some time. Highlights: We discuss Helo’s moral compass vs. his inexperience as an officer, delight in the re-appearance of Head Baltar, question Caprica Six’s desire to be human, and wonder just exactly what it really takes to shake Tigh’s confidence nowadays.


120 Responses to "GWC Podcast #29"
  1. cavatar says:

    Chuck,

    You are talking about the story of a poor couple who each secretly want to get a gift for there loved one. So the husband sells something so he can buy her a hair brush because she has very long beautiful hair and besides him it is what she loves the most.

    His wife in turn, so she can get him a gift, sells off her hair to a wig maker. I do not remember what the husband gave up and what the gift from his wife was.

    Cavatar

  2. Arktis says:

    I think they both sell their hair and buy each other combs.

    They did a joke skit about it in Futurama on one of the x-mas episodes, and Zoidberg ends up with Amy’s and the Jamaican accountant guy’s hair.

  3. Writch says:

    The story is O. Henry’s “Gift of the Magi” and he sells his watch and she sold her hair for the chain.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_the_Magi

  4. GeekChicOhio says:

    Hey guys, I’m in the process of re-watching the entire series with my roommate and we’re ALMOST DONE.
    Anyway, I think Helo’s shantytown is what’s become of Camp Oilslick. It’s mentioned early in season 3.0. They’re people who were evacuated from New Caprica and didn’t have ships to go to. (Remember that Starbuck, with her new haircut, went to visit Casey there).
    Also, the population of the place surely grew when we lost those ships through the passage.
    It wasn’t until a couple days ago that I saw Head-Baltar for the first time since he originally aired. Man, I’m glad he’s back because he’s absolutely great.

  5. GeekChicOhio says:

    Sorry for the double-post here, but my roommate and I noticed something else in our re-watching:
    We want more scenes featuring Racetrack sans helmet. Maybe more of the male listeners and readers can back us up on this…RACETRACK IS A HOTTIE!

  6. Rorlins says:

    Am I the only one that laughed when Helo said “Is this what I get for always being on the outside? Is this my punishment?” All I could think is “He’s getting the craaaaaaaap that the GW crew wants him to get.”

    I agree with nearly all the assessments (will have to listen again) but I want to say I totally agree that Zerick has a plan (or will soon) and that things are getting bad for them.

    What’s interesting is that we are beat over the head time and time again about how perfect democracy is, but for whatever reason the people at BSG want to show us that democracy is flawed, and very much so. You see the rise of the “mob menality” you mentioned. You see demagogues (I get that spelled right?) like Baltar begin elected. They are making strong commentary on the need (as you said) for checks and balances, and the merits/ flaws of benevolant dictatorship.

    I do think though that much of the blame for this lies at the feet of the writers, though, for never showing us “civies” doing anything remotely sensible. There have to be a few *decent* people out of those 41,401 people….. (minus the enlisteds).

    Oh, and yes, Racetrack can … well nothing witty comes to mind.. so yeah, she’s hot.

  7. The 13th Cylon says:

    Whoo! The return of Racetrack!

  8. Nick says:

    As to the question of why Adama didn’t listen to Helo during his whole “the sky is falling” briefing in his office, and why he wouldn’t take an officer, and a former XO seriously. I get the impression that this stems back to when Helo killed the sick Cylons. Adama is no fool, I think he knew exactly what happened and who did it. That whole “I don’t know and I don’t want to know” attitude is simply to avoid having to punnish, or even execute Helo(becuase wouldn’t Helo’s actions be treason?), but deep inside he knew that Helo was guilty, and from that point Helo had lost Adama’s trust. Tigh probably knew as well, or at least suspected as much, and because of that the command staff had faith in Helo’s ability as an officer to complete the tasks given him, but they had no faith in his judgement. It will be interesting to see if that “Bonus scene” was in fact part of the storyline, or a deleted scene, because Adama will now be forced to deal with Helo’s crime.

    I must say though that I am highly dissappointed in this episode. Lately on the podcasts it has been mentioned that the show slips where they want to make political commentary. I see this is being one of those episodes where they want to make “A statement” The episode does nothing to advnce the overall story arcs and serves as nothing more than a “let’s build up Helo.. too many people think he is a schmuck” episode.

  9. Ray says:

    I still can’t get over how amazing this show is. I think this last episode wasn’t one of the best ones, but it still did a lot of things for me. It seems Helo’s string of one man missions of morality were actually going somewhere and this episode redeemed him in my mind. I felt more sympathetic towards him because you get to see everyone against him and it turning out that he was actually right.

    It was fun seeing Head Baltar again, and interesting that he said Six wanted to be human. This looks like more evidence to me that both Baltar and Caprica Six are complete psychos, both using their ‘Head’ counterparts to personify their guilt and desires. But I’m still holding out for something a little more complex than that. My personal theory was that Head Six is one of the F5, partly because she claimed to be an angel of god, and that the nature of the F5 still isn’t really known. But considering Head Baltar too, I don’t even know where to begin speculating.

  10. Rube says:

    Did anybody else notice that Sharon referred to Helo as “Karl”? Or that “good boy” Gata was smoking at the bar? Kinda of out character for him, don’t you think?

    As for some Viper scenes.. ain’t gonna happen until they get the hanger decks cleared of all the “ash and trash” on them – the shantytown and the bar. Do they think that the Cylons aren’t going to attack anytime soon? No military commander would take away his main asset – especially now that Adama has only one set of flight decks. Kinda like walking around a street full of bullies with one arm tied behind your back – a sure way to get a bloody nose.

    I think there is a basic break down of military discipline in progress on Galactica. The bar on the hanger deck (versus the still kept in the supply locker), bringing Sharon back from CAP because her baby was sick(this past episode), the long hair on some of the secondary characters and the married couples on board Galactica are all symptoms of this fact. It hasn’t gotten to a critical stage yet but if order isn’t restored soon, the Cylons are going to catch the Fleet with its collective pants down and its gonna hurt.

  11. I can’t take Helo and his bull. “Why me?” Please.

    Great thing about this ep…Less Starbuck. She and Lee were getting too much airtime.

    I know some of you were hoping Dualla would be a goner. Not yet. LOL. Nice try. She’s a keeper Ron.

  12. The 13th Cylon says:

    I think the episode would’ve been waaaayy better if we had gotten something totally off the wall, like Helo being wrong and everyone hating him for it. That would have been totally un-TV style.

  13. Athenor says:

    No, this was an episode about the nature of humanity.

    Why?

    Because that was the whole point of Six’s interaction with Head Baltar.. wasn’t it?

    Head Baltar: If you want to be human.. you must.. start.. thinking.. of yourself.

    Helo: Fuck my career, fuck my wife.. screw it all, we have to -save- these people that everyone hates!

    Again… This is the shift and irony between the cylon and the humans.

  14. Athenor says:

    Also, Rube…

    Look through the footage. Believe it or not? The right side (I think that’s port) landing strip and hangar deck has NEVER been fixed. When the cylon crashed in the beginning of season 2, it crashed into the empty deck and gift shop.

    They’ve used the right side hangar before. That’s where the shanty town is, and assumedly the right-side pod was fixed up and used for the rest of the refugees and escort.

    And the bar’s shoved up where they built the blackbird, in the very front corner of the deck. =P

  15. Pike says:

    Geez, I got a mention on the cast… 😛

    I actually did like this one. I was expecting a stinker, but it worked. I was going back and forth on whether the doc was OK or not (should have stuck with my first instinct—the new character did it.)

    Rube, I think the bar, like the civilian area, is in the starboard (unused) hangar pod.

  16. Ken says:

    Chuck, Audra, and Sean – You guys have mentioned the bonus scenes the last few weeks. This week you said that scene could have been longer. Did anyone check out the full version of the scene that was on the scifi.com site? I have a feeling that Helo would have gotten more of a comeuppance in the full scene. It must be available only for a short time after the show because it is not working any longer. I was hoping that you guys would have been able to comment on the full scene during the podcast. Maybe next week?

  17. Carni says:

    What I don’t get is why Doc Cottle would have administrative paperwork from a New Caprica Hospital. Who would think that needed to be brought along?

  18. Pike says:

    Carni,

    I’m guessing Cottle himself.

  19. 13th Cylon says:

    Helo’s still guilty of looking through people’s medical papers without their consent. lol

    And I didn’t realize it was “The Woman, King” until I saw the podcast thing on iTunes. I thought it was “The Woman King”, which makes no sense in the content of the episode.

  20. Pike says:

    Strangely, the iTunes version of the episode is listed as “The Woman King.”

    Kudos to SciFi and Apple for getting it up before 9:30 this morning.

  21. Chuck says:

    The title is officially “The Woman King.” I was poking fun about how (as we kid about in the ‘cast) they tricked us into thinking it had a heavy meaning whereas it really just referred to “the woman, King.”

    When Helo said it to Adama, I realized that I’d been had.

  22. Dainin says:

    The full version had Adama asking Helo if he really wanted to make that admission. Helo said yes. Adama said he’d need it in writing and then he’d have to investigate, clap Helo in irons in the brig, court martial him for treason and that he might be facing the firing squad as punishment (All delieverd in that slow Adama deadpan as he is looking at papers on his desk, not at Helo. Now, Adama asks, did Helo REALLY want to write out that statement. Helo pauses and says No Sir, Salutes and leaves.

  23. 13th Cylon says:

    Oh. I’ll have to watch it again. Going into the episode I was thinking somebody was going to be worshiped by women or something like that.

  24. Armando says:

    Hey guys. As usual since the move to Sunday nights I’m having to listen to your podcast in stages (and I’m about three podcasts behind on RDM’s official ones), so my comments are, alas, limited.

    I do want to say that I share Chuck’s frustration (is that the right word?) at the title. I thought the title was actually downright silly, since isn’t a “woman king” called a queen? When I heard that the character who brings the complaint to Helo is called Ms. King, well, I had a big “DUH!” moment. Now I kind of like the title.

    As you know, I’m one of the Helo fans on this little corner of cyberspace. I was glad to see a Helo-centric episode. He’s a character worth exploring, I think, given his boy-scoutish proclivities and it was nice to see him collide with the grey world of BSG a little more than usual.

    Rorlins comments on the BSG writers’ commenting about the imperfect nature of democracy and the value of an enlightened dictatorship. I wonder about that. I have become increasingly disatisfied with Laura Roslin. As Chuck likes to point out, she hasn’t been elected dog catcher and lately she has begun acting more and more dictatorially. She’s come a long way since her idealistic early days serving out Adar’s term and now, well, I don’t like her. She needs to be overthrown or roundly defeated at the polls but quick. And why haven’t we heard from the Quorum of 12 in a seriously long time? Wouldn’t they have something to say about this, benevolent leader or not?

    And yes, GeekChicOhio, Race Track is HOT! Even with the helmet. 🙂

  25. Thom says:

    I love the show, but this episode was seriously lacking. All I took from it was the writers giving Helo a free pass to for more weenie behavior in the future. How bout a Helo episode where his over developed sense of righteousness is wrong.
    Throw Helo out of the airlock.

  26. BoxytheBoxed says:

    WERES HOTDOG??? yeah racetrack

  27. Pike says:

    Something that’s struck me lately. Helo seems to have evolved into the role that Apollo should have had, or rather started out in. I have to wonder why they shifted Apollo out of that role, if they were going to give it to someone else anyway?

  28. ShinyFab says:

    Just to amuse myself: Does this mean Helo’s a cylon? Head Baltar made the statement that Caprica wants to be human. The trick to being human (paraphrasing, obviously) is to care and act only in your own self-interest. Now wouldn’t that just be odd? One of the FF5 has a child with another Cylon, thereby making Hera a different kind of new generation: a new Cylon generation. A bit ironic too if Helo is the conscience of the fleet and a Cylon. Huh.

    Wait. If that’s Racetrack, where’s Earth?

  29. ShinyFab says:

    Just to make the connection which I didn’t in the last post – but Helo and Caprica try to save people. They are constantly getting into trouble for trying to help and ending up wrong, a lot wrong. If the trick to being human is to care only about yourself, does that mean the trick to being Cylon is to care about others? Are the Cylons more emotionally human than the humans themselves?

    That’s what I meant. Sorry. got started in one direction and just couldn’t cross the bridge coherently to the other side.

  30. Atersolitas says:

    My question upon seeing Mrs. King was, “Where’s Scarecrow?”

    I agree with everybody, the show definitely would benefit from more Racetrack with her helmet off.

  31. john patrick says:

    I thought “Woman King” was going to be a reference to Hatshepsut.

    Pike, I’m with you, Helo has had to become the conscience that Apollo had to stop being when he had his existential crisis in the middle of the post apocalypse.

    I love Helo, that he stands up for the rights of people when they have no voice of their own. Because it’s right.

    I have started to look at Head Six and Head Baltar simply as the subconscious/survival instinct of each character. So when Head Baltar mentions that Caprica Six wants to be a human, it’s just exposition. As a story telling device, each of the head characters are simply ways of seeing inside their minds. There’s really no extra information that the head versions give the real characters…. except… EXCEPT

  32. john patrick says:

    EXCEPT when Head Six identified Athena down on New Caprica.

    Audra, you made a cancer joke!

    sigh. I am a cylon.

  33. john patrick says:

    One more thing:

    I was annoyed by the scooby-doo ending where everyone is together, the bad guy confesses… and “scene.” If Adama, Tigh, and Cottle were marching down to dogtown becaue they had the goods on Robert, they should have arrested him and taken him away. The confession and stuff should have come out in an interrogation scene.

  34. Armando says:

    ShinyFab,

    I think that when Head Baltar (how cool was it to have him back?) says that to be human is to think only about yourself it’s simply Caprica Six projecting her own feelings about humanity’s weakness. I don’t think Helo is necessarily a Cylon (even though I first advocated that theory) because he is (relatively) selfless. Just as Cylons aren’t really selfless, they simply rule by committee, which is different. There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of compassion towards individuals in their culture (and why would there be when suffering can be aleviated by resurrection goo?).

  35. Armando says:

    Oh, and about Helo and Apollo. Yes, I think something started to shift when Lee started questioning everything during the Pegasus arc in season two and almost committed suicide. I would be surprised if that issue has been completely resolved and it’s apparent that the fat period, the love affair with Starbuck and the whining are a part of that existential crisis; probably still related to Zack’s death. I wish they’d reference that again because there is no way that Lee, Bill and Kara have completely come to terms with that (well, at least not Lee and Kara). Bringing it about to that direction might start redeming Apollo for me.

  36. frank says:

    Thanx for the link Max, It is nice to see that Sci Fi is looking at more than just ratings when it comes to Galactica. So it looks like we will live to see at least one more season.

  37. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Much like ‘Unfinished Business’ this one was better than I expected, except the punctuation in the title could have been better. The woman… King. Oh yeah that mom of the King boy. Going back to the ‘Torn’ cast I commented on the Helo taking over Lee’s role and they’ve continued with that trend ever since. Heck I’m just about ready for Helo to be Baltar’s attorney. Like GeekChic and others have mentioned the refugees on the Bucket goes back to the Exodus but they haven’t really played it up till now so I didn’t really find it that inconsistent. I get why some were a bit disappointed in the subject matter but even RDM mentioned that it wasn’t ground breaking in his cast but they didn’t do a bad job with it and it satisfied my weekly BSG fix. For those not happy, at least the racism episode is done, right? I can’t say anymore about Tigh that hasn’t been already said. Every time Hogan gets screen time I appreciate how lucky they are to have him.

    And final thought… Much love to Racetrack 🙂

    http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q31/LtSlingshot/racetrack.jpg

  38. frank says:

    Great pic LT. I agree, this episode was better than I thought, and from what RDM said in his podcast we should have a couple of more one off episodes, before we get into the end of season push. I hope we don’t get dragged back into the love quad stuff, or maybe even an affair with Adama and Laura. I hope we are back to the solution that works, there is a problem and they take 45 minutes to solve it, it gets solved and we move on, we need Galactica’s drama not another soap opera.

  39. frank says:

    Heres an idea, a spinoff show…….starring Racetrack, a cool show about a model turned pilot, she loses everything, now she is out for revenge, join her on Galactica as she manages to be the one who finds just about everything.
    Heres hoping she stays around for a while to come.

  40. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Frank I’m with you, I hope they don’t get back to any of the love interests they’ve focused on lately. The fact that they showed Starbuck for just half a second with her “give me a break” face with Lee and Dee, cut away quickly and then didn’t show her again bodes well for those of us tired of all that. That editing was priceless. Now that Helo has had his ep I’m still holding out for a good old fashioned Chief knuckle dragging episode. I mean why is that guy drinking so much with Cally and Nick back in his bunk? Oh and more vipers for Sean.

  41. Pike says:

    Sling, I think you get your wish next ep. Chief and Cally in a “this could be it, if we were minor characters” situation.

    That photo is a bit sad, really. First take, “Whoah!” but then look at her hands and waist. I’m guessing Racetrack bites it the next time there’s a food shortage…

    Frank, one of the Boxeys threw out a spinoff premise in an earlier post, “Boxey and Daggit fighting crime in Helo’s mind.” Still makes me chuckle.

  42. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Pike she may not last long in a famine but back off the dancer turned actor. Besides a little meat didn’t save Kat. Thin girls need love too. 😛

  43. frank says:

    I’m torn, I loved both Kat and Racetrack. Racetrack and I could have a future, after all I’m fat enough for both of us, I love me some algae!!!

  44. Lt. Slingshot says:

    LMAO! The best ambrosia and algae for all my pilots!

  45. frank says:

    Is it just me or are the supporting characters getting the best storylines? I mean look at Tigh, Chief, Helo, Racetrack, Kat (RIP), Etc. They seem to be the people we care most about anymore, and they aren’t even the actors names we see in the main titles. I for one would rather see an episode with those guys than I would have another Lee whining episode, or starbuck letting us know once again she has emotional issues. I would really like to see a Saul Tigh episode, picture it now, all Saul all the time. that would let us know more about his past, and maybe what caused him to be such a hard ass, which helps make the show what it is.
    Craaaaaaaappppp!!!!

  46. 13th Cylon says:

    Saul could get a spinoff series. People claiming that American Idol is too mean, well Tigh would make Simon wet his panties. Every episode would basically involve someone stealing his alcohol and we learn a life lesson at the end of the show. http://youtube.com/watch?v=4PCuEey4Swk

    And it’s funny you said Cally and Tigh getting it on, because RDM clearly said in the podcast at the “Lay Down Your Burdens II” that Tigh and Cheif were in a forbidden love.

    And 13 episode season and the movie is very good IMO. RDM said that he would prefer 13 (in the past) because they don’t have to have “filler episodes”. Imagine taking the weakest 7 episodes out of season 2.0 and 2.5. Yes, it’s less time with the characters, but I’d rather it be more like season 1’s extremely tight writing when they had more time to work their stories out.

  47. 13th Cylon says:

    And watching the alcohol video, I realized this- What happened to the green Ambrosia!?! That was a staple of the show and I don’t remember seeing it for some time.

  48. eric-michael says:

    maybe I have zero life, but I really miss this show on friday nights … that said, I may be lone voice in the crowd, but I really dig Helo a lot. Although I’m not sure if I’d be as self-rightous as him, but lets face it, he’s not a great officer (great officers follow the orders of his superiors, and if they didn’t they’d face the music right away, and take off the uniform for good) … But the thing that got me going in this episode is that these people really need to either find new ships or do something, the way they’ve got this thing set up now can’t work for long. I’ve said it before, but this fleet sucks. I would have stayed on NC if I were them. I wouldn’t have been running for the ships. And question that was on my mind this whole time was why did the Sag’s bother to get on the ships anyways?

  49. Carol says:

    Great podcast, again.

    Some other thoughts on the latest episode and some speculations
    about the future.

    I got a giggle out of Tigh (several times), but one I had forgotten until
    recently. At one point, he says ‘fraaaaaaaack’ (or possibly
    fraaaaaaaaacking), much like he tends to say craaaaaaaap. Just hit
    me funny. It’s like his brain has a stuck ‘a’ key.

    Is it just me, or is Athena getting grumpier lately. Seems like she’s on
    a slide into bitterness, same as Boomer.

    I’m confused about the living arrangement stuff. Lee has a huge space.
    Helo has a huge space? As y’all have mentioned, Chief/Callie/Nick have
    a bunk. Kara/Anders have a bunk? Or is that Kara’s bunk and Ander’s
    has that big place we saw once (remember her telling him to not forget
    his boots?), or was that a different place for Kara and she only hangs
    out at the bunk to escape?

    I think Zarek is pretty opaque, still. It would behoove us (and Laura) to
    not take him at face value. Zarek is scared? Zarek is talking about a
    ‘hurricaine’? Zarek might be trying to manipulate the situation.

    What would be an interesting shakeup for season end? If the trial is
    towards the end of the season, and if there is a ‘hurricaine’ of
    rabble rousing by the non-military folks…how about this? What if the
    trial was happening on the prison ship (makes some sense, eh?), and
    Roslyn, Adama, Lee, etc, were there, and the masses staged a coup and
    stuffed most of the military folks on that ship and took over the
    Galactica and jumped away? Perhaps a few raptors were doing
    patrols and thus were left behind, say, one with Kara in it. In
    desperation, the raptors are sent out in various directions to try and
    find the Galactica… perhaps stumbling across ‘something else’ instead…

  50. GeekChicOhio says:

    First and foremost, I’m glad my roommate and I could bring to the forefront of discussion such an important and weighty issue, i.e. Racetrack’s hotness.
    As I’ve been re-watching I’ve noticed that the one-offs and slower/less important episodes seem to go over much better on DVD. 45 minutes in a boxing ring, or a Caprican Espresso Bar is much more interesting when you’re an hour away from the next dogfight instead of a week away. The show can’t be everything for everyone all the time, but in re-watching, I’ve found it usually comes pretty frakking close. As for living arrangements, I think it’s pretty much officers get rooms, pilots and knuckledraggers get bunks. Kara only has a bunk (the big room where Anders needed to remember his boots WAS the pilot’s barracks, they’d just locked the door (and the boots were a sock-on-the-doorknob style do not disturb sign)). It’s unfortunate that this is the case considering the Chief’s kid, but, then that’s probably why he decided he didn’t want to raise a child on a battlestar.
    Hooray for a 4th season. I figure if they can keep Stargate on the air for the last 20-odd years, they oughta be able to pony up and keep paying for BSG.

  51. Ray says:

    Isn’t it going to be a major problem, though? If the finale is finding Earth, it seems the series has a built in deadline. If the series went on for a good few years, and each season they find a new ‘signpost to Earth’, won’t everyone get bored with it being dragged out?

    That’s the only thing I worry about with Galactica. I just hope they don’t keep the show going for the sake of ratings at the expense of a good story arc and continued brilliant writing.

  52. Pike says:

    frank, “I love me some algae!” Classic. And yeah, the supporting characters are getting the best bits. I think they’re willing to do more with them.

    13, nice vid.

    Carol, originally Helo and Athena were going to move into her cell (it was spacious and already decorated.) Not sure why they dropped that idea, it was a good one.

    Ray, yeah, they’re already pushing the ‘path to Earth’ plot. The arrow shows us the way to Earth! The nebula shows us the way to Earth! The nova shows us the way to Earth! Googlemaps shows us the way to Earth! Why the frak can’t we find Earth?!

  53. NY Spinny says:

    I’m thinking Helo scored the big room when he became XO of Galactica. They just didn’t take it away when Tigh resumed his post, for whatever reason makes sense in BSG-land.

    I second the Madame Airlock as Woman King idea. That’s whom I assumed they were talking about when I first saw the episode title. The foreshadowing of strife in the rabble ranks, and the advice to declare martial law? I see that as part of the double meaning of “King.” Given how RDM talked down this episode as an arc-maker in his own podcast, I still choose to read that extra meaning into it. Makes it more interesting to me.

    You’ve probably already heard this, but RDM totally confirmed the “Helo who cried ‘Wolf'” trope originally intended in this episode. That helps explain Adama’s impatience with him that “in the canon” doesn’t seem to be justified by what they show us. I’m far from being a canon Nazi, and in point of fact what goes on in RDM’s head is nearly 100% of what informs what happens next in the show, so this stuff matters.

  54. Pike says:

    Spinny, I’m with you on the importance of “RDM’s head,” with the caveat that he sometimes (well, quite often, actually) changes his mind. So, giant lump of salt with that.

    If anyone cares, I totaled up the votes in Audra’s “Show me the Money” post.

  55. 13th Cylon says:

    RDM has always said that the plan is to make it 5 seasons and that he’s always designed this show to be able to wrap it up in 3 episodes at a moment’s notice.

  56. Armando says:

    Well, the official site on Scifi.com just posted that there will be at least 13 episodes to season four…but they won’t be aired until January, 2008!!!!! What’s up with the long hiatuses?

    (Okay, I know this means we’ll have a direct to DVD movie and then some sort of big Sci-Fi “event” broadcast of same sometime in late summer or fall, but still…10 months to wait AGAIN?!?!?!?)

  57. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Fraaaaaaaaak! Well sucks for all of us but good for all my friends I’ve turned on to the show who are catching up at a snails pace.

  58. Dainin says:

    In the recent podcast, several questions were asked.

    Why does Baltar want to be a cylon?
    Why did Six come to Galactica?
    Why is Helo always in trouble (and why does Tigh actually like him?)

    Sin, or rather the extirpation of sin, and possibly some form of redemption. Galactica, as we know explores religion and religiosity as well as moral and ethics in it’s episodes.
    I think that either consciously or in it’s expression of the race myths or archetypes on which our unconscious draws maybe the source. Now I am not arguing the existence of Original Sin (not something I personally by in to) but rather sin as either an evil act of state.

    I believe that Baltar said upon waking in the goo, that it ment he hadn’t killed or betrayed anyone. Something of that sort. In other words, as a cyclone he would have been doing his duty, like Six, rather than being a betrayer to the entire human race. To be human means that he is stained by that betrayer and he desperately hopes to avoid that.

    Six on the other hand, desires to be human because I believe, she is developing some of the traits of humanness, a conscious or at least a sense of guilt. I think she maybe beginning to experiencing remorse and perhaps seeking a way of penance. Somewhere, it was mentioned that the cyclone pure view does not seem to remain intact with extended contacts or interactions with humans. Sharon/Athena, Caprica, Deanna, perhaps even Cavail! (although he started cynical and cool!) As a race we are a bit messy to hang around with.

    The interesting polarity of this episode is then set up with Helo. Six is told to become more ‘egotistical’ if she wishes to be human, yet we are presented with Helo as the archetype of the selfless nature, not thinking of ones self but standing up for what is right, even at personal cost. The sacrifice for the greater good, is still another step toward the cylon desire of becoming human, which I believe is their ultimate motivation

    Why is Helo always in trouble. He is emotionally based. His ethics and morals are innate, He does not reason them thru. He acts, not reflect rationally. Rosslin, Adama and others at the command rank, are primarily rational sorts. They think thru the action, it’s consequences and as Adama said this last episode, they are capable aof and have lost their way. A theme also presented in the earlier attempted genocide of the cylon eppy. The one exception? (well other than Starbuck) Who spots off, is prone to emotional over action? Col. Tigh. They are both emotional creatures, Tigh is just a little further on, but in a way are kindred spirits

  59. Joe says:

    This news about a 13 episode season four is so disappointing! I remember in one podcast RDM said he prefers a 13 episode season, but I certainly don’t agree!
    And January 2008?!?!?! That’s almost a full year from the end of season three. March 2007 through January 2008.

  60. Pike says:

    Dainin, very nicely done.

    Joe, Meh. If it means higher quality overall, I’m with the thirteen ep. season. Unfortunately, I’m afraind that the DVD movie will effectively nullify that, so we’ll end up with a 13 ep. season with a 24 ep. season’s quality.

  61. Dainin says:

    Man, I wish there was an edit, since my typing is … at times creative. Cyclone lol!

  62. Athenor says:

    I can see a 13 ep season work.

    You may or may not have noticed, but there’s a lot less external shots and fleet actions in season 3. Early on, they said that New Caprica ate a TON of their budget.. and I’m sure Exodus, the Eye, and the discovery of the eye didn’t help.

    With a 13 ep season, they can throw more CGI in there. Which.. you know.. MIGHT be important if they are racing for earth.

    It bums me out, to be sure.. but eh. As long as there’s no mid-season break.. And maybe if the eps were an hour and a half long… But that would kill syndication.

  63. frank says:

    Dainin, dont worry about the edit, your thoughts are good.

    Athenor, I agree, and maybe with just a 13 ep season, maybe we will make it to a 5th season, which is where RDM wants to be. I too am concerned with an 8 month layoff. We could lose some ratings, but it gives us plenty of time to catch up, maybe do a little more review, come up with other things we may have missed the first time around. I am sure us Galactaholics will make it through, maybe CAS (my new nickname for Chuck, Audra, Sean) can rename the website to the Galactica support group, we can all meet here for our therapy.

  64. Pike says:

    “You may or may not have noticed, but there’s a lot less external shots and fleet actions in season 3.” True, but at this point they’re story decisions. They’ve recouped the wad they blew on Exodus (at least, that’s what I’m getting from RDM’s podcast.)

    “With a 13 ep season, they can throw more CGI in there. ” Sadly, no. The budgets are per-show (which they can slosh back and forth over the season.) On the bright side, the effects team is getting better working with what they’ve got (note the more cautious Centurions on Algae Planet.)

    “As long as there’s no mid-season break.. ” Got me there. Was there a break season one? I can’t remember. If I was a network exec, I’d put one in there to stretch out the season.

  65. Armando says:

    Well, let’s keep in mind that the order is for AT LEAST 13 episodes. I do think the consistency of quality would be helped (although I think season 3 has been pretty darn consistent) with a shorter season (season 1 is still, in spite of season 3’s quality, the strongest of all of BSG’s years, I think).

    Athenor, I have noticed that there haven’t been as many action episodes since Exodus II as there might have been without the New Caprica storyline (I think Sean has been noticing too…heh-heh). I’ve also noticed, though, that there have been a lot of new establishing shots, whereas in seasons one and two a lot of the shots of the fleet were re-used.

    And though a DVD movie might mean less time spent on developing the fourth season, the large lapse in time between productions might nullify THAT. I do wonder, though, if that whole Caprica spin-off is now kaput…

  66. Pike says:

    Frank, heh. “I’m Pike and I’m a Galactaholic.”

    Not sure if your season count is right, though. The rule of thumb is that you need 100 shows (about five normal seasons) for syndication (although this was broken as early as the original Trek.) With two half-seasons, they may need a sixth full season to get to the magic number. (The miniseries and DVD movie may mitigate that, however.)

  67. frank says:

    That is a valid point Armando, they did not mention the spinoff in the article on scifi.com. You would figure they would mention it anywhere they get the chance, you know more publicity.

  68. frank says:

    I didn’t even consider that Pike (the 100 ep thing). Maybe a 13 ep season would require them to try to get to a 6th season, I would not mind after all I too am a Galactaholic. The good news is we admit having a problem and that is the first step.

  69. 13th Cylon says:

    A lot of the visual effects are reportedly done in-house now and only using Zoic when they need to.

    And look at HBO’s shows. Typically 13 episode seasons with long breaks in between.

    Yoko Ono once said “All we are say–ing is give 13 a chance!” It’s one episode per Cylon and I get to be the exciting seat of your pants cliffhanger.

  70. frank says:

    Also they mentioned on the podcast, and I remember seeing it here somewhere about Lee defending Baltar in his trial, I found the article, its on page 12 of the current scifi magazine, David Eick states that “Lee will find himself in the position of Defending Gaius Baltar for crimes against humanity.” The conflicting thing is that in the roundtable discussion that RDM did with some of the cast and crew, they introduced that new character who is supposed to be Baltar’s lawyer. So maybe the trial will be long enough for two lawyers.

  71. Pike says:

    Armando, I think the reason you’re seeing fewer stock shots is that the Old Bucket is showing damage from *the coolest visual effect in TV history.* Thus, they had to do new establishing shots. Expect those to become familiar (at least for this season.)

    Frank, So are there twelve steps for us Galacticaholics, then? Or just seven for now?

    13, it’s a magic number.

  72. Les Vogt says:

    Ok. It’s Baltar’s trial. Baltar is in the defendants chair. 6 is off to one side as a prisoner waitng to testify. Head Baltar is talking to 6. Head 6 is talking to Baltar. They look towards their real selves and the head people see each other. Looks of amazement. Zoom in. Music swells. Cut to commercial.

  73. 13th Cylon says:

    Pike- I’m the magic Cylon. I’m on Earth. The rest need to work out their problems and box who they wanna box before I send the signal. And they had better get some high quality goo before I have to download.

    I can’t wait for the silly hyjinks that will ensue when Six is a witness and Baltar is in the room and they both see the other’s head version.

    One thing though, a soap called “The Young and the Restless” recently STOLE this before BSG got a chance to do this. They went forward in time and stole it and brought it back in time. There’s this dude named Jack who screwed over his Pop by making him sign a will when he wasn’t with it before he died and ever since he died he’s been popping up and annoying Jack very much Head Six style (in front of other people and once in a court case). I don’t think “steal” is the right word, but it wouldn’t surprise me if BSG was some inspiration for that. I see the show every time I go to my grandparents’ house for lunch, which until this semester started was once a week, so I’d watch the show once a week and keep up with it as good as I could watching every episode lol.

  74. frank says:

    OK so Cylons love them some soap opera’s!! I see a new defense method to defeat them, giant TVs.

    OK Pike, I am not sure about the steps to recovery, thank goodness we don’t have to worry about it until March, and I’m also not sure about the making amends step. who do we need to apologize to? At least I will apologize to Racetrack for some baadd thoughts.

  75. 13th Cylon says:

    Well we will get the new BSG video game this fall for the XBOX 360 and PC. That should help tie us over for a little while. I’ve been planning on getting a 360 for a while since Indy Jones and Star Wars are going to be for the 360, too.

    http://www.bsgarcade.com/index.html

    And Cylons love a good soap. The basestar is a soap. 3 to a bed, fainting couches, robes, naked yoga, ugly men and beautiful women, large tubs, and a babbling crazy person in charge of it all. I almost forgot the murder, backstabing, and everyone being power hungry.

  76. frank says:

    I’ll tell ya what 13, if you take away the naked yoga and the 3 to a bed, then you have my first two marriages.

  77. Athenor says:

    Alright, conceded on the special effects elements.

    A side note. I finished season 2.5, and am now finishing up The Resistance.

    I have a STRONG feeling that they are going to see how the season 3.0 DVD’s sell before they commit any more than they have. The iTunes sales have apparently been good, but Sci Fi hasn’t taken those into consideration yet. And I personally know I would buy the 3.0 stuff in a heartbeat…

    So yeah. Everyone is claiming to watch and love these shows, and yet ratings are down. I’m sure Sci Fi is having to cope with this…

    Also, if we’re complaining.. then how the hell do the Sopranos guys do it?

  78. Lt. Slingshot says:

    As a Sopranos guy myself, at least HBO has other good programming on Sunday’s during those insane breaks. Six Feet Under, Rome, Deadwood, The Wire, etc. SciFi doesn’t give us anything near the quality of BSG when it’s on hiatus.

  79. Athenor says:

    Yeah, but didn’t that pedigree start after The Sopranos proved that HBO could have a successful tv series? I forget the exact timeline.. But in most markets, Sci fi is an extra charge over basic cable.. so they are pretty close to being in the same boat as HBO, just without the large budget.

  80. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Oh no doubt, The Sopranos put them on the map and opened the door for more. I’d like to believe SciFi would take the same approach but they seem to be more committed to the low budget monster movie of the week that they can run for years rather than the higher budget series. I guess the Gates fall somewhere in between but I would never put them in the same category of writing, acting, cinematography, scoring, etc. I always hold out hope but I fear this noble experiment may be near to running its course. Guess I’m coming off a little negative on the SciFi execs, sorry about that cause you know I love the show.

  81. The 13th Cylon says:

    Ah! The awful looking CGI monster movies. Those are craaap.

  82. Pike says:

    “… so they are pretty close to being in the same boat as HBO, just without the large budget.”

    Athenor, Bingo. HBO just has more money to spend on quality programming. SciFi actually doesn’t do half-bad (the Stargates, BSG, Dr. Who, etc.) when you consider that. (And, yeah, I think the ‘Gates are right up there. They just don’t get the same respect b/c they have a sense of humor about themselves.)

    That said, it is possible to do a decent scifi/horror/fantasy show with a small budget, so I’m not entirely letting them off the hook for the “CGI Peril of the Week.”

  83. Armando says:

    Keep in mind that HBO is a subscription service which is not dependent on advertising revenue for its budget. (And even so, they canceled Rome after just two seasons, seeing how expensive it is to produce and such. Why, oh why do I fall for shows that, although brilliant, only last a couple of seasons?) SciFi, although usually a package above basic cable is still dependent on advertising revenue. The advertisers, then, don’t count the DVR downloads (apparently BSG is the most “Tivo’d” show on television), iTunes and DVD sales because these don’t generate income for them (this was all in the LA Times article that Max Peck posted two days ago). If you added up the revenue for these media the numbers would be much higher. I for one wouldn’t be surprised to hear the order gets upped to 20 episodes at some point during the hiatus, depending on DVD sales (both for the movie and season 3), video game sales (thanks for that news, 13th Cylon!), etc. As for a long life to the series: well, I’ve always felt that this show had a built in ending anyway. You can’t string along this story line indefinitely. Either these guys find earth or they don’t but you can’t keep them looking for years and years. I’ve always thought that it could last maybe four seasons, possibly five, and it seems to me that that’s what’s going to happen anyway. Otherwise the show will start losing credibility.

  84. Athenor says:

    There is one plotline that they can use.

    If need be, someone can get into power, or something can happen, that makes the fleet decide to strike at the heart of the Cylon. All the pieces are there to swing in that direction. Obviously it’d never be successful, but that kind of counterattack is possible with the pieces as they are now.

    But yeah. Eventually, Earth needs to be found. I don’t think it will be the end of the series, however.

  85. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Ok I don’t mean to be a harbinger of doom but it is a very real possibility that season 4 might be it and when I ask myself honestly, that might not be a bad thing. I mean yeah it’s a bad thing that my favorite show may be going off the air but it might be getting close to running its logical course. And yes I expect to get flamed by some for saying that. As others have said this isn’t never ending serial TV. The characters have been or are near being fully developed. Even with the sparse VFX, they given us some of the best on the small screen, most of the big story arcs have run their course (the Baltar arc is close) and after that only earth and the fate of human/cylon are left. How many more episodes do we really need to tell this story? Don’t get me wrong there will be ashes, garments rent and gnashing of teeth in my home when this show is put to rest but after the mourning is done and I have chance to reflect, with only 66 (Potential) episodes and the mini this was a powerful show that will stand the test of time. The worst thing of all would be loosing the GWC community because this is a very cool place with intelligent open-minded folks, a rare find these days.

  86. Its Boxey (O gods no) says:

    2008 WHAT THE FRAK (MUMBLES words that tigh often says) theyre screwing us again, just like Stagrate SG!, Atlantis, EUReKA, and thats about it

  87. Pike says:

    Slingshot, you’re going to have to try harder than that if you expect to get flamed around here. As long as they end it well, I’ll be happy. I’m just hoping they don’t have a big cliffhanger and then get cancelled.

  88. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Ok how about this… BSG SUX and so do all of you!!! Better Pike? 😛

    It’s a sore point with the emotional me that this show could be close to wrapping up even if the logical me looks at the show and thinks we could rightly be headed for the end sooner rather than later. The best thing about this show is when it was tight and I mean TIGHT. If and that is a big if, a 13 ep season 4 is the end I hope they return to that. We’ve all commented when the show has wandered and when it does finally come to an end I hope it is an adrenaline pumping ride to the end.

  89. Armando says:

    LT, I totally know how you feel. I have thought that the show needs to be limited to three or four seasons, MAYBE five (maybe) since the beginning. I think anything beyond that would strain credulity. The fan boy in me, however, wants nothing more than to have BSG for the next ten years (not to mention some swag). The Apollonian and Dionysian sides of my brain are fighting each other like Jerry Seinfeld’s brain and libido playing chess!

    Whatever shall I do?

    And hey, if you mind the intelligent and open minded conversation, I’ll be glad to indulge you in some name calling…ya frakking toaster lover! 😉

  90. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Yeah that’s more like it you daggit molesting freak! 😀

  91. frank says:

    Hey guys, calm down, thats just what the cylons want!! Us turning on each other, so calm down all you frakkers.

  92. Pike says:

    Ah, just like the SciFi boards. You bunch of, er, Cavil-liking, um…

    OK, I got nothing.

  93. Pike says:

    *downs a bottle of ambrosia, flips over the table, and punches frank*

    Just keepin’ it real. BSG stylin.

  94. frank says:

    poor me, I come into the fight late and still am the only one to get punched.

  95. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Yeah it is feeling a lot more like the SciFi boards.

    So Frank, I see you’ve been hanging out with the Sagittarions. How’s the herpes? 😛

  96. frank says:

    shots twice a week keeps it in check, I for one am not afraid to seek medical care.

  97. Its Boxey (O gods no) says:

    You MOLESTED MY DAGGOT *busts out a nuke, detonates it*(abord galactica)
    Tigh:Nooooo he just blew up that really nice ship
    Adama:Noooooooo Starbuck was oin that ship, shes like my daughter
    In unisin: WOOHOO were all saved Starbucks dead *do happy dance, make paper eating jokes*

  98. Lt. Slingshot says:

    LOL ok I’m going to stop before I really offend someone in the name of humor.

  99. Pike says:

    Boxey, then she wakes up in the goo. Cue season four. (and a frakload of screenshots.)

    Sling, you’ve got my email…

  100. 13th Cylon says:

    Don’t forget that they still want to do the Caprica series. So the franchise isn’t dead even when BSG is over. Who knows, 25 years from now, we might be talking about a new incarnation of Battlestar Galactica. lol

  101. Armando says:

    Oh shut up, you frakking toaster.

    Oh sorry. I thought we were still doing that…

    (So that’s what the SciFi boards are like? I haven’t been there in ages.)

  102. perry ostrin says:

    oh billie!!! yes i met the actor that played him last night! i look over and were both crossing a street here in veice and i go “hey did you play bille in bsg” and he smiled and said “yes” by this time we were on the other side safe from traffic and i went on to tell him how much i love the show and bummed his character got killed to which he replied “it was time” he went on to say it was his decision to leave the show,move to la,and move on..so just wanted to share my story cause i know our hosts are very fond of this character and that it wasn’t just the writers/creators fault for offing him but i guess it wouldn’t be very galacticalike to go out any other way! fyi just heard the show officially signed for a 3rd season!

  103. eric-michael says:

    by the way … anyone who who’s a Helo Hater … the guy really does put his money where is mouth is, on the very first episode the guy gave up his seat to give it to baltar because he wanted to save humanity.

  104. Athenor says:

    Yeah.. keep in mind, Helo was supposed to be a character that is left behind, never to return. When he is left behind in the miniseries, that was supposed to be the first sign of sacrifice on the show… Until Helo’s actor forced them to rethink things.

    How can you hate a guy who wills his character into surviving through a character “death,” without being a cylon?

  105. eric-michael says:

    okay I’m gonna have to throw out the “I work in the entertainment industry” card into the ring, and I’m not sure if anyone has said this, but a 13 episode commitment is different from a 13 episode season … all it means is that he’s got the green light for 13 episodes, that certainly does not mean it won’t be longer. A lot of shows just get a 13 or 10 episode committment, and yet still go on for an entire 23 or whatever … it’s just what the network is willing to give the green light to. with the ratings going up with it’s move to sunday night I’m sure we’ll see more of battlestar …

  106. Pike says:

    Perry, nice story. Good to hear that he’s OK with getting two-timed by Dualla and then gut-shot. 😉

    e-m, good point. Usually that’s a first season thing, so I had forgotton that angle.

  107. Athenor says:

    Wait, the ratings are going up with the move to Sunday?

  108. Pike says:

    Athenor, they dropped, bounced up a bit, then dropped again. Last week’s was the series’ lowest.

    However, ratings are for advertisers, so they don’t count iTunes or TiVo (consumers are assumed to skip commercials in the latter.) SciFi definately considers iTunes and DVDs, though, since it’s still revenue.

    I’m very curious to know what the percentage of people who’ve stopped watching BSG live since the move to Sundays is. I know I have.

  109. Athenor says:

    I think BSG may be one of the first casualties of the breakdown of the advertising revenue based model for television…. Not as in it’s not getting funded.. but as in its viewership is increasing while its ad revenue is going down.

  110. Pike says:

    Athenor, possibly. It’ll be interesting to see if they recoup enough from iTunes and DVD sales to make up for ad revenue.

    Also, I read somewhere that SciFi regards it as something of a prestige project. They’ve found it easier to get people on board other projects because now they’re “the network that runs Galactica.” So they might even run it as a loss-leader.

  111. Its Boxey (O gods no) says:

    off topic, i just saw Ghost Rider, it was kinda crap. rent it.

  112. Armando says:

    Yeah, the whole model for TV is changing. I’m too hooked on the show to not watch it live, but I sure do miss it on Fridays (although the move to Sundays has meant that I can still catch the show while I’m out of town on gigs, which usually fall on Fridays). Obviously the model is going to have to change. Advertisers have started making deals with networks who show their shows online for free by placing commercials that cannot be skipped through into the online content (NBC has been doing this with Heroes on their site, I don’t think it happens on iTunes, where people pay to see the shows). The studios certainly put advertising on the lead to DVDs, but who watches those anyway? BSG is apparently the most downloaded/Tivo’d show on television. You just know that has to count for something over at Sci Fi and NBC/Universal.

    Then again, DVD sales (I don’t think it was available for download) didn’t save my beloved Arrested Development. 🙁

  113. frank says:

    Armando, Pike you guys are right on the money, maybe they will figure it out with ad placement, maybe Adama can drink a pepsi in an episode, or Lee can take some new anti whining medication. I’m sure that stuff will be taken care of in the future with the explosion of DVR and Tivo, and iTunes, I just hope it happens in time to save my Galactica fix.

    I feel your pain Armando AD was a great show, I still catch reruns on G4.

  114. Its Boxey (O gods no) says:

    Id be fine if they Changed the Galactica to the Coke if it saved the show

  115. Armando says:

    Meh. I still think the show’s story has limited potential for longevity. Even if the ratings shoot up next season I still think there should only be one or two more seasons for the show. It’ll be really, really hard to extend the search for earth like that.

  116. Pike says:

    The TV w/o Pity recap is up and boy did he hate this one. “Worse episode of the series.” Huh? Worse than Black Market? Worse than AMOS? Okaaaay.

    Worth a read, though. The guy can write:
    http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/articles/content/a12821/

  117. Armando says:

    Well see, I liked this episode. And it sure is better than “Black Market,” but then, for BSG it’s hard to get any worse. That was a really pointless episode, all things considered.

  118. frank says:

    Don’t mean to change the subject, but last week we got RDM’s podcast a week early, and here we are day of new episode and nothing yet, what gives with these guys.

  119. Pike says:

    frank, I think it just took everyone a few weeks to get on board with the new schedule. Last week iTunes managed to get the episode out “next morning.” This week, apparently, SciFi is back to the “hours, not days, early” posting of the podcast.

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