February 2, 2007

GWC Podcast #28

We’re filling the missing-episode-gap this week with another listener-based podcast, and it was a blast. Have we mentioned recently how much our listeners ROCK? Highlights: With the help of many listeners who called in with their own questions and comments, we talk a lot about the next Cylon reveal, discuss the point of politics in BSG, are amazed at one caller’s professional run-down of why Baltar’s going to walk in his upcoming trial, and wonder aloud if Baltar’s whispered secret to Gaeta might be of a “personal” nature.

89 Responses to "GWC Podcast #28"
  1. eyeless says:

    It’s great that there’s a podcast so listener-oriented out there! You guys are so awesome.

    Oh, and I’d like to use this comment to state that Bulldog is a Cylon.

  2. The 13th Cylon says:

    Dang it! I forgot to call in again. Oh well, there’s always next time. I’ll have plenty of time to make it extra pithy, Cylon style.

  3. Chris B. says:

    I’m listening to your podcast right now. Great job, week after week.
    You’re talking about who could be a final five cylon. I think that you may be forgetting the only person that Deanna would HAVE to apologize to.
    Like eyeless said earlier… it’s Bulldog.
    She treated him horribly, like an animal. Much worse than anyone else.

    I don’t think the Bulldog episode was a throwaway episode, he will have ramifications later on.

  4. Cro Magnon says:

    Chris B, as far as I remember we don’t know which copy of number 3 (D’Anna) was torturing Bulldog.

    Also Bulldog served a long time under Adama and Tigh. I doubt that he is one of the Final 5.

  5. DFAbram says:

    After listening to Lawyer Bill on the podcast break down the upcoming trial for Baltar, a thought occurred to me. Baltar may be able weasel out of the treason and colloboration charges, but he did commit murder when he killed Crashdown on Kobol. It’s possible that the Chief or Cally (I don’t remember which one saw him shoot Crashdown) could come forward with this revelation if the trial was going poorly fo the Colonials. Just a thought.

  6. Armando says:

    I only JUST finished listening to last week’s podcast and you already have the new one up? Man, I’ve gotta start reprioritizing! 😉

  7. Shaymus22 says:

    Hey, you guys need to remember what headsix said to Baltar before she pushed the chair out from under him: “it’s time to find out the truth”.

    He wanted to kill himself because he wanted to find out if he was a hero to the Cylon(z) or a traitor to humans.

    Also, I would just like to point out that in the past episode, two characters tried to kill Baltar; headsix and Felix Gaeta. Don’t you think that those two characters might have something in common?
    [dramatic musical interlude]

  8. Pike says:

    Shaymus, Heh. I think that headsix was part of his delusion at that point, and not the ‘real’ headsix (same with her in his drug-addled state.)

    Nice podcast, glad so many people called in. I’m seconding the plea for Bill to call in after the trial arc (I’m sure it’s going to be several episodes long.)

  9. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Shout out to everyone who called in but too many anonymous calls. Come on people, we’re kind and gentle around here. Next time your fellow fans know who you are! 🙂 Great comments all around and another nice job from the GWC to help fill a break.

  10. Arktis says:

    Nice cast; thanks for putting me on this time. You sorta took what I said too far in some aspects, but I appreciate that you guys allowed it to spark some good discussion. At no point did I say that politics was the sole intention of the show, by the way… in fact I said it was a “slice” that was mostly ignored, but that I *wasn’t pointing any fingers* at anyone in particular.

    By the way… discussing these kinds of things is just my way of enjoying myself. Where other people like to talk about who’s sleeping with who or whatever, I like politics, science, and religion. So don’t get me wrong.

    Thanks again.

  11. rose says:

    I agree that the trial could potentially uncover lots of dirty secrets about the characters.

    Bill had many great points, I like the idea of Laura testifying that Baltar was a traitor all along, but she had him be her Cylon expert from the beginning, hen Vice President as a political expediency and then he turned on her. hink he’ll mention her trying to steal the election? What does that make her? Even if he doesn’t bring that up, their political rivalry would taint any of her testimony as being biased against him.

    Also, great point that Adama, as he has already admitted, got too soft too soon and let the military decline. They left Baltar with no military options when the Cylons appeared.

    About Six, she could be found competent to testify at Baltar’s trial, but will anyone believe her even if she tells the truth? Bill also points out that the Shelley Godfrey Six had tried to frame him for this once before.

    The only problem with all of this is that we know (from the miniseries) that Baltar gave Six access to the defense mainframe and allowed her to program lots of code. Allowing her access she didn’t have a security clearance for is a crime. I hate to see Baltar getting away with this, after all the damage it caused. He didn’t have to intend a genocide – the rules about security are there to keep spies and enemies from access to vital military secrets – anyway, he did assume that she was going to use the information for her own advantage, he just thought it was for commercial advantage.

    I don’t think there is any way to prove it though. I don’t think any of the ships still existing have copies of that navigation program that disabled so many ships and battlestars when the Cylon’s first attacked. I hate it that Baltar will get away with this crime.

  12. rose says:

    About Six and Baltar wanting to kill himself – ChipSix is Baltar’s survival mechanism in his crazy mind. I think her intention of him attempting suicide was so that he will know he is not a Cylon and that he isn’t going to resurrect. He has to stay alive.

  13. Tanu says:

    hey guys, awesome podcast and thanks for putting me on.

    I agree that Lawyer Bill should come back and comment or something or other. He was awesome!

    Also, i can see Sean bringing his Centurion date a bouquet of bullets accented with shell casings!

  14. fnord says:

    Great podcast as usual guys,
    Bill’s defense council strategy of Baltar was absolutely fantastic and rock solid.However we have forgotten one huge thing that can be used in Baltar’s defense. In the episode “Collaborators” Roslyn issued a general pardon for all Human beings after the new Caprica episodes. Unless they can prove that Baltar is a Cylon, he’s been pardoned for anything he has done on New Caprica…

    As for before the attack, as Bill said the Cylons (and it was a six too) have already attempted to frame Baltar for collaborating on the attack, Roslyn and the Admiral know this and it’s enough to create reasonable doubt on Caprica’s testimony.

  15. Mark says:

    On politics ……

    Arktis has already replied above, softening the tone of what he said on the podcast about how Galactica SHOULD be more political. He, and the watercooler team, talked about the negatives of our war in Iraq.

    While there is much in the news about Iraq being a mess, and that a majority now believe this, it is also true that quite a few people see it from the other side. Without defending that other side (and I REALLY REALLY REALLY don’t want to turn this into a political blog), lets just say that if the story line reflects one side of the political spectrum’s view, it will lead to less audience. Galactica IS a war drama. It is one of the rare shows on TV that treat people that serve as people that are to be admired – flaws and all. As much as episodes that talk about torture resonate with Arktis, I am sure that the episode with Dianna as a deceiving TV journalist also hits home with soldier in Iraq/Afghanistan. Being a War drama, my guess is that the viewership of Galactica tends more to the conservative side.

    So, I hope that Galactica stays relatively down the middle. We need viewership from all sides to keep the series going for many seasons to come.

  16. BoxytheBoxed says:

    yea friday

  17. BoxytheBoxed says:

    Lt. were reaslly mean, conceited, and evil leave your name so we can make fun of you to make you want to drive into a PIKE

  18. Atersolitas says:

    The way I look at it, Galactica has elements that relate to what’s going on today, but I also feel that they could relate to other periods in history as well. I think that if you make something that applies universal human events, despite it being political, it will also be timeless. Suicide attacks, for instance, are prevalent in history (Japanese kamikazes being one that immediately comes to mind, but they were also used by the North Vietnamese, the Hashashins, the Crusaders, and by certain Jewish sects during the Roman rule of Judea). These events recur because the situations that caused them recur – an opposition is faced with an enemy with far superior military might and they determine that this may be the only means of striking back. I’m certainly not saying I support the use of suicide attacks, just that suicide attacks are not something that has only faced us in the current situation but has recurred again and again. And thus, with Battlestar Galactica, I’m glad that they pursue these issues, because I don’t view them as being of one time but rather representing cyclical events within a context. After all, all this has happened before….

    Now if Starbuck complained about her parachute pants, that would be something different (man, I hope THAT never comes back).

  19. Ressa says:

    I just had an interesting theory about the Final Five; one I haven’t heard mentioned yet:

    What if one (or more) of the F5 is an already known cylon? For example, Cavil. He seemed to know a lot about the Final Five, and was adamant about D’anna not finding out who they were. In fact, he boxed her for discovering the truth! I think this would also fit in well with the whole “I’m sorry… I didn’t know” line. RDM already mentioned in one of his podcasts that Cavil is the cylon who knows the most about the cylon mythology/religion, despite the fact that he is an “athiest” cylon.

    I think maybe one of the Final Five is masquerading as a normal cylon, when in fact the model they are pretending to be is boxed and the others don’t know about it.

    Granted it would be a little irritating and cheap if Cavil or one of the others turned out to be the big “reveal,” but it’s an interesting Battlestar-esque thought.

  20. Pike says:

    Ressa, Yay! I had floated almost that exact theory a little bit ago (probably in the comments for the previous podcast.)

    I think a ‘reveal’ of Cavil wouldn’t be as disappointing as, say, Bulldog. Especially because it would imply a lot about the nature of the F5.

  21. Maxlord says:

    Hey guys, love the blog, love the podcast (especially!).

    One thing has been bothering me: in Firefox, the website can scroll horizontally. I think that I have found a solution. If you look at the bottom of the file “/wp-content/themes/ThreeCol/style.css” you will find this line of code:

    left: 498px;

    If you change it to this:

    margin-left: 498px;

    …then the problem appears to be fixed. I didn’t test this very thoroughly, so I’m not sure if will change something else.

    That’s all. Thanks for such a great podcast!

  22. fnord says:

    Wow, never thought of Cavil. It works with Dianna’s line upon seeing one of their faces, seeing that Baltar just shot Cavil lol (worth the apology)
    However, Dianna tells Cavil that he will one day see the faces of the final five , just before she is boxed, so that sorta makes me discount Cavil. (I’d assume her reaction would have been different if he was one of the faces she saw)

  23. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Hey, guys… thanks for playing my message. As I said, I’m loving this podcast.

    Okay, I’ve been reading way too much Charles Stross here, but here’s my theory on the F5. What if they ARE human? Or more accurately… what if they’re “posthuman” (as in reaching that point in time where the machine and the human have merged to create a new species)? Stross novels (Glasshouse and Accelerando) talk about humans who can download into clones. It just strikes me as odd that the Cylons would “evolve” into human-like forms in the first place. Why limit yourself?

    I’m wondering about the Eye of Jupiter. It got me thinking about Jerusalem. Three major religions (two of which are offspring of the major one) consider Jerusalem a major religious site and will get different meanings from it. For Muslims, the Dome of the Rock sits there. For the Jews, it is the site of the Wailing Wall. For the Christians, it is where Jesus was crucified. All three of these religions are related, but the city would mean different things for each of the religions. I would liken the Cylon religion as an outgrowth of the Colonial religion (not really a pure theft), just as Christianity and Islam are outgrowths of Judaism.

    I’m thirding (is that a real word? since Pike already seconded the notion) of Lawyer Bill coming on for the Baltar trial post-analysis.

  24. Ressa says:

    Browncoat Bryan, the Temple of Five reminded me of Jerusalem also. I always wondered though if there was more than one Colonial religion, because it seems unlikely that a civilzation large enough to occupy 12 planets would only have one major religion.

  25. Cro Magnon says:

    Browncoat Brayn writes:
    “I’m thirding (is that a real word? since Pike already seconded the notion)”

    No this is not a word. 🙂 Second is just overloaded with several meanings. One of which is:

    From Webster:

    Main Entry: second
    Function: transitive verb
    Etymology: Latin secundare, from secundus second, favorable
    1 a : to give support or encouragement to : ASSIST b : to support (a fighting person or group) in combat : bring up reinforcements for
    2 a : to support or assist in contention or debate b : to endorse (a motion or a nomination) so that debate or voting may begin
    3 /si-‘känd/ chiefly British : to release (as a military officer) from a regularly assigned position for temporary duty with another unit or organization

  26. Frank says:

    I just emailed the podcast about my theory on Bulldog being a cylon and it seems my idea was not so creative as I have read it in several other places on this website. Just goes to show how with all you guys are.

  27. Frank says:

    Would anyone else like to see a flashback heavy episode about what life was like for the main characters before the attack? Or maybe even an episode about the cost of war? I love the show for not holding our hands when it comes to tragedy, but I think an episode that actually gets the characters to look back at what was lost, and the personal price they each had to pay, would be very interesting. I am a recently discharged disabled vet, and personally I would love to see some of the characters have to deal with the cost of war. Kat died and by the next episode everyone is fine, Starbuck gets hurt and in a few episodes she is good as new, And Audra’s favorite, Lee gets fat, and within a few weeks he is back in awesome shape. (By the way does anyone know a weight loss secret that could help me like that?) Just thought I would float the idea.

  28. GAIUSISGOD says:

    posted earlier in baltar forum but ill repost gyst here-baltar will not be on trial for caprica. Baltar will not be on trial for the nuke that Gina got. Baltar will be on trial for new caprica. This is the one time he really isnt guilty of any technicality. He tried to fight. Adama committed treason by leaving. Its not a lawerly show ala OJ. Baltar is innocent of the crimes for which he will be accused. As to why he is the chosen one for the human side see other post about inner six and about whats been revealed already in other cat. Bottom line. no Baltar, no salvation. IE no Vader, Luke gets fried. And yes again Star Trek Sucks lol.

  29. Armando says:

    So Baltar was created when Darth Plagueis manipulated the midichlorians?


    Seriously, that’s quite a theory, Gaius. I like it. I’ve been thinking that Baltar would just be facing trial for New Caprica as well, although the thought of him being the chosen one for the humans had not crossed my mind. Could he, then, be the “dying leader?”


  30. Pike says:

    Frank, they did shoot a lot of scenes in New Caprica for later flashback use, but I think we’ve seen the bulk of those already.

    W/r/t the characters injuries, BSG is actually rather good with that. Injuries take a while to heal (remember Starbuck’s leg last season) although it sometimes seems unnaturally fast because the show is not shown in real time. The one exception I can think of is Lee’s jumprope diet, and that was just because they wanted to get him out of the fat suit.

  31. rose says:

    My latest theory on a final five Cylon: Doc Cottle. After all, didn’t D’Anna question him about the Hera? Heh 🙂

  32. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Doc Cottle is the Cylon God! 😛

  33. Luc says:

    Doc Cottle a cylon? I doubt it but anything to see more Cottle, one of the more interesting satellite charactor. I still think it would be the Oracle.

    Maybe the final 5 were different than the rest in that they did not advocate conflict with the humans. It would be interesting to eventually see a faction of cylons separate from the rest and fight them. Maybe that could be reactivated final 5s. I can’t see otherwise how humans could ever settle safely on Earth. Even if they eventually find it before the Cylons, it would only be a matter of time before Cylons find them and kill all humans with their vastly superior fleet. I doubt the writers would use some kind of Trek-like resolution where humans use some technobabble mumbo jumbo to solve all their problems neatly. Cylons will problably be goated into self-destruction in the end. Or they have an ironic conclusion to the story and both Cylons and Humans are destroyed… but residents of Earth are spared.

    Hopefully there will be a fourth season and they can answer a lot more questions.

  34. Cro Magnon says:

    Nice podcast.

    As for the discussion about F5. Since the temple of five revealed the F5 to D’Anna I think there is a base to assume that the F5 from 4000 years ago have some connection to the current F5.

  35. Luc says:

    Oh yeah, forgot to mention how much I enjoy the podcast.

    It’s been great to see how many more posts the forum is getting lately. Just curious, how many people listen to this podcast?

  36. Frank says:

    Just a recent thought, when did Baltar ever see the tub of Goo? Should we assume the Cylons let him roam around the Basestar and he saw it then? When he was being interogated both druged and undrugged he had visions of the tub of goo. How would he know what it looks like unless deep down in his mind (or programming) he knows what it looks like. It’s also nice to know that he dreams of the good goo and not the oatmeal goo.

  37. Athenor says:

    Hey all.. Guess who’s back?

    I moved into a new life in January. I’ve started my Undergraduate studies at ISU. I don’t know if any of you remember me, when I posted for the last couple months of last year. Well, with the apartment move, my ability to see BSG has been cut off, until this week.

    I just saw ep 12, and am going to watch eps 13 and 14 ASAP. Until then, I won’t be posting regularly, except to say this:

    With complete and utter humbleness and humility, I wish to say that I was right. =) At least, through ep 12. We’ll see what 13 and 14 bring.

  38. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Hey Athenor good to see you back. Watch out for the freshman fifteen.

  39. Athenor says:

    I’m a junior with my own apartment. I shall receive no hassling. I’m debating listening to the podcast (finishing it) during class today.. it’s kind of a pointless lecture.

  40. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Oops guess I misinterpreted “started my Undergraduate studies”. Regardless good to have you back.

  41. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Okay this has been really bugging me so I’m going to take a stab at trying to guess why the Final Five appear in the Temple of the Five Priests. When the Lords of Kobol left Kobol, the Lords went with the 13th tribe to Earth. Five of the Lords decided to return to check on their children and they built the temple along the way back. So I guess by that reasoning the Lords of Kobol were the original Cylons and they created humans. All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. 😉 They returned and secretly monitored the progress of development in the colonies. When the machine Cylons rebelled against their masters and fought the war 40 years ago they decided it was time to step in again and help start a new race. In this case they were the ones who created the seven “skinjobs” but created them in such a way that they know not to try to discover their identities with the exception of one model, Brother Cavil, keeper of secrets. Or of course a defective Three. It’s the Final Five who have a plan and just maybe their plan is to unite their children, human and Cylon, to live in peace. Then again maybe I just got a hold of some of that good New Caprica weed Adama likes so much.

  42. Pike says:

    Sling, good to see someone take a stab at it. Works for me (especailly because it keeps my ‘Cavil is tied to the F5’ theory intact.)

    Gave the ‘cast another listen, and I was struck by how much fresher everyone sounds. It seems the new timeslot is at least as rough on the GWC crew as it is on most of the rest of us.

  43. Pike says:

    Oh yeah, welcome back Athenor.

  44. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Chuck and Sean (and Audra too since noticed and they didn’t)

    At Pike’s urging I’m posting the infamous Deanna white jacket cleavage shot. I have to admit it’s even more over the top in video because I noticed the camera even dips down gratuitously at times just to make sure we get an eye full. How did you two NOT notice this?


  45. Athenor says:

    Hey Pike. Can’t wait to debate and bounce ideas off you. =)

    Also.. in a fit of monetary stupidity, I went out and bought season 2 today. Both halves. I have no clue when I’ll have time to watch them all, but I’ll make time. I’ve always said the big failing in my debating and analysis has been a lack of information on season two (for instance, a good deal of stuff with Kara).. So I hope to correct that and refine my debates.

  46. Ressa says:

    Frank said: “By the way does anyone know a weight loss secret that could help me like that?”

    I have a theory that Lee simply cranked up the gravity settings on Galactica and boom, instant workout! However this might pose a health hazard to Athena and Six… oh wait, they’re cylons.

  47. Frank says:

    Thanks Ressa! Hey Lt. In the second picture you posted it looks an awful lot like Baltar can’t take his eyes off her cleavage.

  48. Cro Magnon says:

    Frank, good question. As far as I remember we saw only that he saw the hybrid in the goo.

    Same question applies for the opera house in the city of the gods on Kobol. He saw the same opera house D’Anna saw in her vision in the temple of five and which was destroyed several thousands of years ago.

  49. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Cro and Frank, forgive me but I’ll hijack the opera house on Kobol and the temple on the algae planet to support my theory on the Final Five and Lords of Kobol. Those overlaps in visions suggest the Lords and F5 may be one and the same. That and location scouts from production like that opera house.

  50. Pike says:

    “In the second picture you posted it looks an awful lot like Baltar can’t take his eyes off her cleavage.”

    Baltar was in that shot? I so missed that…

    Athenor, That’s a hole in my collection. I got the DVD’s of the first season, skipped the second (since they were recent at the time) and picked up on the iTunes versions after that.

    Frank, I think that at some point either Caprica or D’Anna gave Baltar the grand tour. (But good on ya for pointing out that we didn’t actually see it.)

    Sling. Heh.

  51. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Exactly, Sling!!!! The Lords (or some of them) and the F5 could be the same. Or else the F5 are like the Holy Pentity (i.e. the Holy Trinity, plus two… sing along with me… “God in five Persons, Blessed Pentity”), since according to the Cylon Gideon Pythia bible, one of the Lords broke off from the others. I’m still trying to figure out how the Scriptures got back to the Colonials (and hence the Cylons) if the 13th tribe made it to Earth.

    Also, it is kinda funny that Baltar and D’Anna envisioned the same opera house. This has to be significant.

    Oh, and Baltar was staring at D’Anna’s girls. No doubt. That was the second thing I noticed in that shot.

    BTW, thanks Cro…. This is my week for making up words. 😉

  52. Athenor says:

    Hmm. It seems I made a post here, and it got eaten somehow.

    Is there a filter for websites or something? Ah, no biggie. I was just posting a pic of the Hasbro Titanium model of the Prometheus. If you look around, you’ll find it. Rebel Scum is a good starting spot, the Jan 2007 archives, look for a link to wave 3 that can go to wave 2.

    Anyways, it appears I’m not as far behind as I thought. Nice job, moving the show onto Sunday right before the Super Bowl. Still, considering it was the 2nd highest rated Super Bowl ever, there was some insight in not going head to head against it.

    As for the same vision, that one is pretty simple if you consider the strings being pulled here. It’s kind of a central metaphor/nexus point for the lost tribe and the lost 5, which are obviously connected. Also, did it get discussed how D’anna saw her vision not because of the temple, but because of the recall order sent by Cavil? I mean, she died from internal bleeding… Cavil was there when she revived. It seems to me that they constantly killed off the Three’s until their consciousnesses were all bound together, or at least bound in a single entity, and thus could be downloaded.

    Tangentially, I have a pretty good idea how the 12 cylons mentally operate. I will write that up by the weekend and submit it.

    Anyways. D’anna basically experienced a prolonged death, which gave her more time to explore the link between life and death. The temple had jack squat to do with it, which leaves the temple completely inert in all this. Theories include the temple -causing- the nova when it detected the right life forms, or the temple being left to point at the distant nova. Either way, the true purpose of the Temple is still out there… And by the looks of it, PLENTY of pictures were taken

    … If any of this is revealed in ep. 13, let me have my moment. 😉

  53. Frank says:

    Seems you haven’t missed a beat! Good point about all the Xena’s dying at the same time, that didn’t cross my mind. Good thing your back, and good luck with your studies! I look forward to your inner working on the Cylon mental operations this weekend.

  54. Athenor says:

    It is good to be back.

    By the way, you must forgive me if I say things that seem to come out of left field.

    In my mind, from what I’ve seen… Cavil is the closest thing to an angel of death that the Cylons have. His line might be the military tacticians, or something.. But his character, and how it is played, and the fact that he was at the boxing… All this points to him being like the one to take people to the promised land.

    This is reinforced by another thought I have, that Cavil is the most likely Cylon to be one of the final 5. AFAIK, we don’t know Cavil’s number, and no one said that all 12 models had to be unique… Especially given that we’ve seen 5 unique personalities amongst the Cylon — Caprica, Cavil, Boomer, Athena, D’anna… But hey, that’s off the deep end and I need to do some more exploring/research to present that idea fully. But anyway, I digress.

    Regardless, whenever I see or think of Cavil, I get the mental image of.. like.. the boatman of the river Styx, or that one dude on the CBS show Touched by an Angel. He’s cynical and neutral because he’s detached from both life and death (he talks about how much he hates downloading), he is older, and very pragmatic….

    I don’t know. It’s a thought rolling around my head, and one that is probably not well suited towards grasping for at this late hour.

  55. Audra says:

    Welcome back, Athenor!

    Pike – You’re right; Fridays suit the GWC crew a lot better. We’re trying to pep ourselves up more for those late Sunday nights! 😉

    Slingshot – Dang, she looks fabulous in that jacket! I really was wondering where I could get a jacket like that, lol! I KNEW I wasn’t the only one who noticed that. Jeez, the camera gets right in there, doesn’t it?

  56. Chucksax says:

    Those who believe Doc Cottle is the Cylon God… no way. It’s GOTTA be Racetrack. Noone could be that retarded of a pilot and still discover EVERYTHING that Racetrack’s discovered.

  57. Pike says:

    Athenor, “Is there a filter for websites or something?” There’s some kind of spam filter in place, but it should result in your post being tagged “for moderation” not disappearing.

    “Cavil is the most likely Cylon to be one of the final 5” Heh. Ressa and I both came up with that same conclusion (see top-middle of this thread.)

  58. Athenor says:

    I will by the end of the week, Pike. Still have my “blinders” on for the new episode. I wonder when I got this fanatical about blowing spoilers?

    Anyways, the idea of Cavil being one of the final 5 is supported by D’anna’s reaction. She seemed… I wouldn’t call it happy, but it was relieved? She just reacted to him differently when she downloaded. It also fits with the “forgive me, I didn’t know” — she was just present for his shooting/death.

  59. Athenor says:

    … And I just went back and checked the posts. I feel silly, mirroring what was said and making it sound like I came up with it first. *facepalm* All deference to you guys. I concur. =)

  60. Lt. Slingshot says:

    James Callis can’t control where his eyes focus but who can blame him?


  61. Pike says:

    Athenor, Great minds and all that.

    Slingshot, LMAO.

  62. Peter Coffin says:

    Great website and podcast. I have a couple thoughts on the show — maybe they’ve been discussed already — but anyway.

    Callers and commentators have suggested that maybe the Cylons don’t really have a plan, or that they’ve become sidetracked. I don’t argue with the sidetracked suggestion, but I think they’ve had a consistant plan from the first: They want to find earth, and they believe they need humans to do so.

    When Galactica met Pegasus, Kane told them that Pegasus had been following a Cylong fleet that had in turn been tracking Galactica. The Cylons could’ve destroyed Galactica from day one, but have chosen not to, because they need humans (esp Starbuck?) to find Earth.

    Even Cavill, the biggest misanthrope of the cylons, said on New Caprica that they should reduce the human population to a ‘more managable number – one or two thousand’. He knows they Cylons need a few humans to complete their goal, but is pushing the limits with how few they can get away with…

    This is, at least, the plan of the Known 7 cylons. The plan of the Final 5 differs.


    I think one possibility for the next Cylon to be revealed that has been under-discussed is: LAURA ROSLIN.

    To begin, my premise is that the final five broke from the “known 7” before the invasion of New Caprica, and that the F5’s goals do not align with those of the K7.

    Some evidence for Laura:

    # She doesn’t have the extensive backstory of Tigh or Adama. We know she was on Caprica long enough to get a minor cabinet role and begin a relationship with Adar, but I can’t think of any evidence that she’d been around for more than 5 or 10 years. She could’ve been a F5 ‘observer’ or ‘sleeper agent’ placed on Caprica.

    # It would make sense that D’anna would apologize to her — D’anna had imprisoned Laura on New Caprica.

    # It would explain her actions towards Hera – Helo and Sharon’s baby. The F5 don’t want the K7 to get their hands on the child.

    # Finally, Laura has a history of relationships with powerful men. The F5 prefer to work ‘behind the scenes’ – her relationship with Adar typifies this. Now, she’s developed a sexual relationship with Adama (evidenced by the bedroom lighting on their scenes together at the end of Taking A Break…). The writers love to rip the carpet out from a character who gets too happy, and they’re about to do this to Adama when he finds out his new girlfriend has a glowy spine.

    There are, of course, some arguments against: The first that spring to mind are that she didn’t recognize Six on Caprica and the whole cancer scare — but I think those are obstacles that enterprising writers could get around.

    Maybe this has been discussed and dismissed somewhere, or maybe there’s an obvious disqualifier I’m missing. I hope she is *not* a cylon, I like the character much more as a human, but I think a good argument can be made that she will be revealed to be one.

  63. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Damn, Peter… why do you have to be picking on my girl Roslin??? But, you’ve raised some good points. D’Anna HAD to have had some interaction with Roslin. I’ve never thought of that. I’d hate for Roslin to be a Cylon… that would truly suck. RDM already broke my heart by killing off Kat.

    I’m liking where everyone is going with Cavil. He is like the angel of death. But, I don’t think he’s one of the F5…. Unless they do a reveal of another person and that person is one of the other Seven and Cavil steps out (with the reveal music) and says, “I’m one of the Five”.

    Oh, and Chucksax… LOL!!!! Leave Racetrack alone!!! If she’s a Cylon, then she’s the best damn undercover Cylon they have. “Uh, is that a planet down there?”

  64. ShinyFab says:

    Okay. So I got busy with a few things and I’m sorry I didn’t get a chance to chime in for the podcast. But here are some more wacky theories to amuse myself, and hopefully, one of you. I wouldn’t be surprised if the FinalFab5 were not cylons at all. Or even completely humans of the Colonial variety. Presupposing this has all happened before, etc: the 13 colonies left Kobol for a reason and I’m going with Cylons or a Cylon predecessor. Who were the 13th and why did they go the other way anyway? Everyone else found 12 cozy planets near each other, why not the 13th? Why are there 12 cylon models and not 13? The Lords of Kobol and the final five are the same. The 13th tribe were led to earth by a child of the ‘gods’ (Starbuck). Starbuck’s dad = an FF5. This guy appears long enough to have a child and disappears before she grows up. I think the FF5 are the leftover lords of Kobol.

    Sorry. Ran out of steam. Where’s Racetrack when you need her?

  65. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Shiny, yeah that’s what we’ve been kicking around this week. It’s the best way I can think of so far to reconcile why the F5 show up in the temple. They were Lords that returned from earth and built the temple along the way. It goes a long way to explain how the scriptures chronicling the journey got back to the colonies, why the opera house is in both Deanna’s and Baltar’s visions and also the astrological map room on Kobol. Also I think that they may have been the ones to create the other 7 models.

  66. Frank says:

    I wonder if RDM is planning something like to Original series where it turns out that Baltar is a F5, and he ends up being the Master programmer of the other Cylons, we do see that sometimes he does borrow from the other series. I do agree that the final five do seem to also be the Lords of Kobol. I am still rethinking my master plan, I hope to have something shortly.

  67. Athenor says:

    Personally, I’m thinking the time of BSG referencing the original is over… This is their baby. In history, this is what will be remembered, as its own entity. There is very little reason to think we should divine the plot from the original.

    Note this means nothing in regards to Baltar’s future. Just saying. 😉

  68. Athenor says:

    You know what we need? Personal little spaces. Nothing big, like maybe just a profile/sig thing.. Although I guess that would require registration.

    I dunno. I’m watching the beginning of season 2, and it’s blowing my mind how different Head Six is from what I’ve seen of her in season 3.. And she didn’t even really act this way as much in season 1. I’d like to explore this a bit, but this isn’t exactly the proper venue, given the subject matter.

  69. Pike says:

    Frank, I’m not getting your TOS reference. Was there a Baltar reveal that I’m forgetting?

  70. frank says:

    I’ve got to be honest Pike, I was 7 or 8 during that time and there is some fuzz in my head that mixes Galactica with Buck Rogers and a lot of other sci fi from the ’70s. But what my brain thinks is wasn’t Baltar discovered to be the master programmer for all the toasters? Like I said long time ago.

  71. frank says:

    If it turns out that I’m looking back at things wrong, then forget what I said, and I apolog…hey wait a minute look Pike it’s Helo……oooooohhh.

  72. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Frank I was about the same age as you and here’s what I remember. Baltar was the traitor that sold the humans out by aiding the initial attack on the colonies. The Cylons were going to kill him but after begging for his life he was given command of a Baseship (and maybe even a small fleet of 2 or three). He convinced them that because he was human, he thought like them and thus had a better chance of destroying them. I don’t recall him having anything to do with programming. I think that was done by the reptilian Cylons that were the real race, not the robots. I kind a miss Lucifer though now that I think about. He was funny.

  73. Lt. Slingshot says:

    LMAO even if Pike has a little man-crush on Helo he was the one who prompted me to post the cleavage pics. We should cut him some slack.

  74. BoxytheBoxed says:

    i dont think the cylons have a cyLAN. bro. cavil could have sent himself to download city instead of “well this is akward” see im right

  75. Browncoat Bryan says:

    LOL @ Frank!!!

  76. Athenor says:

    See boxy, this is where I’m wondering.. and this is kind of going to be the basis of my theory.

    (I just got through Farms, BTW. Yup. It’s good to see more and more of Kara’s backstory. I loved how one of the items she grabbed from her apartment was her bible, or book of Pythia, or whatever. At least, that’s what I think it was).

    The whole story seems to be based around the concept of networks. who your friends are, who you trust, who you don’t, what constitutes as living.. All these can be seen as networks, in the most loose of terms. The cylons seem to have a more defined, literal network.. Sort of like file sharing. This is kind of where I’m heading down.

    Now… to watch Home pts. 1 and 2 tonight, or not. … Hmm.. I really just want to see the Pegasus without a Basestar on its brow, so… hm.

  77. Athenor says:

    Forgive the dumping of ideas, but I just saw something I need to get down and people need to chew on.

    Home, Pt. 2. Paraphrased a bit, around 9-10 minutes into the DVD.

    Baltar starts denouncing Head Six.. about how he can’t have a baby with his fantasy girl. Head Six says she never claimed she’d be the mother (“More double talk,” although it might be true if HS is somehow representative of the Cylon as a whole).

    Baltar brings up Kara, and Head Six’s head snaps up and stares at him in a bit of… shock? rage? Something.. And says he’s in dangerous territory.

    Now, if I recall correctly, Baltar and Kara did get it on at one point, yes? So it is theoretically possible… Although the look Head Six gave Baltar, my guess is that it falls squarely into the “frakked up” territory.

    But this brings about something interesting. As this point in Home, no one on Galactica has any clue about Kara’s return or what happened to her on the planet. One of the Cylons (I forget which) has said something about Kara having a destiny, referenced by Leoben… But again, Baltar only knows Kara left for Caprica (if that much).

    Now I’m still a proponent of Head Six being linked to the Final Five // The One True God // The Lords of Kobol… But this does add fuel to the fire that Head Six is communicating, somehow, with some outside force. This force can track both human and cylon movements.

    Also, I guess it plays out later with Leoben’s head-games, but there’s a good chance Kara’s impregnated eggs were taken in Home. Anders or Baltar could be the father (maybe Apollo as well), but if either were the case, her child wouldn’t be a human – cylon hybrid… Unless she were the cylon, being one of the final 5. I believe that episode was also the one that used the blood of Boomer and someone else to express how similar humans and cylons were.

    Again, forgive my rambling. But Baltar and Head Six’s conversation there hit me like a sack of bricks. I needed to get that off of my chest while it was still fresh.

  78. Athenor says:

    HAHA! Man, I wish I could edit posts.

    Anyways. Right after that, was a MASSIVE misdirect as Head Six toned down, said she was a figment, all that. Yup.. Baltar was onto something -big-, something he wasn’t supposed to know yet. And Head Six got defensive.

  79. Pike says:

    frank, that’s not Hel—Hey!

    I’m a couple years older than you, and I don’t remember TOS Baltar ending up being the Cylon programmer. (He wound up stranded on a remote planet, IIRC.) The backstory I remember is that the Cylons were a race of reptiles that created mechanical servants, who ended up wiping them out.

    Athenor, interesting posts. I think it might be fun after this season runs out for the GWC crew (and the rest of us) to revisit the earlier episodes once a week and reevaluate them in light of what we’ve seen this season.

  80. Athenor says:

    Pike, I know I have no sway here, but I do think the idea of a “recap” session or two would be an excellent way to proceed, especially if season 3 plays out like it’s being portrayed.

    Oh, and it’s very interesting watching Final Cut… From the music, the ideals, whatever.. great ep to recap. Considering it’s relevant as D’anna’s arc ends… and a comment that I think helps the network concept:

    Sharon: “I’m alive! … She’s alive!”

    freudian slip?

  81. frank says:

    the recap idea sounds pretty cool, it would give us the Galactica fix that we all need in the off season.

  82. 13th Cylon says:

    I listened to it finally today and the whole Daggits standing on top of each other bit had me laughing so hard I almost pissed in my pants. At work. Almost.

  83. Nick says:

    Going back to the mid-season premire, what I find more interesting is evidence that the cylons and humans are linked not only through this particular series of events, but rather they are linked through all time itself The “Temple of the 5” on the algae planet was supposed to have been built by the colonists about 3000 years in the past. Yet when the sun goes supernova, who gets revelations… It’s a cylon. It means that this temple 3000 years ago was built not for humans, but for the cylons. Why would that be the case unless 3000 years ago there were cylons with the humans? How is that the case if the cylons were created a mere 40+ years ago by the humans?

    Other interesting discrepencies:

    In season 1 humans always refer to Kobol as “The birthplace of mankind”, but Leobin refers to Kobol as “The birthplace of us all”

    Also another wacky theory.. what if the “Final 5” are not known because they haven’t been built yet? It’s why Hera is so important to the future of the cylons. The “Final 5” will be built incorporating the blood/dna of Hera to make more advanced skin-jobs.

  84. Nick says:

    Oh.. the cylon that was recognized.. It’s got to be Adama. For the simple fact that Leobin said that Adama was a cylon. Everybody assumed he was lying, but think about it. What has Leobin ever said that was a lie, that he didn’t later say “I lied about that”? Everyting he has said has come to pass.

  85. frank says:

    If Adama is a cylon, what would that make Lee?

  86. Nick says:

    If Adama is a Cylon that would make him one of the “Final 5” which may be cylons capable of procreation.

    Now that I’m actually listening to podcast #28 a couple of more serious comments:

    On Geta: During the Exodus on New Caprica Geta pulled a gun on Baltar on New Caprica and was ready to blow him away. He stood down only because he thought Baltar was about to die. Now he finds that Baltar is still alive and he is thinking to himself that he should have killed him when he had a chance. Essentially, Geta was witness to all the crap that Baltar pulled on humanity and he figures that his former relationship with Baltar would give him the ability to get close enough to finish the job. Not only that.. I think this is plenty of evidence that Geta is not a cylon. If Geta was a cylon, why would he have past information to the resistance? If Geta was a cylon, then his attempt to kill Baltar would have been successful. A cylon could have snapped Baltar’s neck without thinking twice about it.

    And as to the question of why Head-6 encouraged Baltar to commit suicide. This was very much in Baltar’s interest. Baltar’s deepest fear has been the fear of death. Knowing that he is about to be interrogated, pushing Baltar to the brink of suicide, actually making an attempt suicide caused Baltar to stare death directly in the face. With that fear faced, Baltar was able to keep those secrets he wanted to keep, even in the face of the interrogation.

  87. Athenor says:

    I say again: D’anna was being “recalled” as she was having our vision.

    And we have flashbacks of Adama. Not from Adama’s perspective, but from Tigh’s. And judging by it, they are at least 20-30 years old.

    While I believe the skinjobs are that old, I do NOT believe that they age and grow like we saw with Adama.

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