January 22, 2007

GWC Podcast #26

After weeks of waiting, I guess we all wanted to see world-changing reveals in The Rapture. Though they didn’t come (yet), we did receive some enticing clues as to what’s coming. Highlights: We run down what we can logically learn from Three’s “vision” of the final five, speculate about Baltar’s fate, express surprise over Three’s early boxing, wonder when we’ll see more Callie and little Nick, and joke about where else Starbuck might be hiding tattoos — and how they might affect the fate of mankind.

143 Responses to "GWC Podcast #26"
  1. Boomer "The Brother" says:

    Nice ep. More questions, than answers. I’ve been waiting for you guys take on things. Starbuck the Cylon? Possible.

    Baltar back on “The Bucket”! Great!!!

  2. St. Cavil says:

    Anyone else surprised to see Cavil suddenly appear at the temple? Did the others know a copy of him was onboard the heavy Raider with DeeAnna and Baltar? Why didn’t his copy turn the raider around when the cylons decided to bring all 6 raiders back to the basestar?

  3. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Hmm. Good question, St. Cavil. Perhaps he was there to snuff out Three and Baltar if things got crazy (like he was about to do).

    Now, it appears to me that the Cylons are starting to fall apart. Isn’t it interesting that the “hero” Cylon models turned against each other (letting Athena escape)?

    Who was the Cylon that Three saw? I’m no longer convinced that Starbuck is the Cylon. As a matter of fact, I’m pretty damn certain now that Starbuck is not a Cylon. That would be way too convenient. Plus, I don’t recall Three ever really having any true interaction with Starbuck (the look of recognition on Three’s face and the apology). The only time Three talked to Starbuck was during “Final Cut” and that was only an interview. It has to be someone she’s had real contact with. Who would it be? Roslin or Tigh? Can anyone else think of who Three had a true “relationship” with?

    Oh, and didn’t Chief have THE LINE before he pistol bitch-slapped Baltar? The was the episode for slapping, wasn’t it?

    Damn RDM for his “Lost”-like fake reveal!!! I was all ready to see Starbuck be the one.

    I’m gushing like I just won a trip to Hollywood on American Idol. Sorry!!!

  4. ShinyFab says:

    Seeing Dee get tetchy and smacking Starbuck (oh come on, we know it wasn’t ALL about keeping her coherent), the Chief gets pistol-whip Baltar, and the jealous Boomer getting knocked the frak out by Six with a nice crack at the end — it was awesome! I’m still leaning toward Starbuck = Cylon. I think D’anna was apologizing for Caprica and New Caprica: the Farm, holding her on NC with Leoben, etc. I’m not convinced otherwise yet. We’ll see. I wondered how the frack Cavil got on the raider . . ..

  5. Hylon says:

    DiAnna interacted with everybody when she filmed the documentary, so the one she recognized could be anyone, although I’m betting it’s doc Cottle. 🙂

  6. bio says:

    first I don’t have cable or satillete I have to watch BSG from DVD….heresy I know. anycase I had an interesting thought after cast 25 which was helped along by a high fever O_o

    anycase what if it is happening. the whole thing. there is no setup to find earth. I find it no coincidence that there are 12 human cylons and 12 lords of kobol and that the gods (aka the lords) lived with mankind. often in greek/roman myths the story is best answered in the simple. example, a prophecy tells a king that his son will kill him and marry his wife. so the king sends his son out to die but the boy is taken in, later leads a revolt, and the prophecy wins.

    what am I getting at is that by them first looking for earth they things in motion. I think the actual earth search is a red herring. its not that they find it.

    anycase I have more but typing on a treo is tough.

  7. Bernie "Bern Unit" says:

    Arrgh! Back off of Helo! I just don’t think you guys get it. From my point of view, Helo is the hero of the show. In fact, I would argue, that Helo is the avatar of Adama’s conscience – doing the things that Adama would like to do but cannot. Let me explain:

    1) Helo has a truly unique point of view – he is the only person married to a Cylon. To him, Cylons are legitimate sentient beings, and therefore have legitimate personal rights. Therefore, Helo believes that genocide of the Cylon race is wrong. Adama agrees – he spent over a year coming to learn that Sharon Agathon was a person, not a thing. Adama doesn’t pursue who killed the captured Cylons because he was happy with the result.

    2) When Laura admits that she hid the baby, Adama walks out – he’s as unhappy with Laura as the Agathons are. When he goes and tells them the truth, he doesn’t try to cover for Laura – he feels her actions are reprehensible, just like Helo and Sharon feel. But Adama can’t do anything about it, but Helo can!

    2) After the shooting, Helo went off on the President and told the truth. Notice that he had complete support of Adama. Adama held his arm back, but Adama did not stop him from going off on her, and Adama never turned to face the President. He knew she had this coming and agreed with it. Adama was worried about the possible consequences to the fleet, but notice he didn’t do anything to Helo because he understood the principles involved.

    Personally, I think Ron Moore has found the perfect way to have a character that can do the Right Thing. Most writers would make that person Adama. But Ron Moore knows that the series must be realistic, and there’s no way that Adama could be that person in this universe – he has to worry about the survival of the fleet.

    So, every time Helo does something that goes against orders, keep in mind it is what Adama would like to do.

  8. Carol says:

    Some thoughts about “Rapture”

    a) Head 6 telling him he’s the chosen one, when he
    clearly wasn’t, leans things towards Head 6 just
    being a manifestation of his own conscious or

    b) Kicking 3’s arm out of the way was so cold, man,
    and yet, so Baltar. Nice touch.

    Two interesting bits
    1) the ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t know’, or whatever it was
    she said to one of the 5

    So that makes me try to think of who has 3 interacted
    with in a way that she’d feel like she needs to
    apologize. Baltar? Nah. The Hybrid? She tends
    to treat the Hybrid like a second-class citizen
    (‘She doesn’t get a vote!’, considering her words

    Someone who was tortured? Saul? Kara (no, wahh!!)

    2) telling Baltar he was right

    What was he right about?

    That the Hybids didn’t speak gibberish?

    That he’s a cylon? (I don’t personally think so, it
    would be too nice a thing to do to Baltar, he would
    like it too much)

    Not a big Dee fan, but I have to admit, she was good in
    this one. I loved the slap to Starbuck’s face, even though
    I’m a huge Starbuck/Katee fan.

    Brother Cavil
    I didn’t buy his turnaround from last time. What made him
    change his mind and now not want to risk the nukes?

    What’s up with her these days? Her personality has
    changed so much.

    Nice to see Six kickin’ *ss and takin’ names again.

    The Admiral
    I love how protective he is of Laura. When Helo was
    stalking Laura and looming over her, Adama was clearly
    NOT going to let anything bad happen. He did the same
    thing when Gaius approached Laura at the pow-wow, put his
    body physically in the way. I enjoy the quiet power
    he exudes.

    … is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters
    (I hope he’s able to stick around)

  9. Armando says:

    Thank you, Bern Unit! I’m glad to have another apologist for Helo around here. To me he is the only truly moral (or at least morally corageous), upright character in the show. Sure, he can be a bit of a boy scout, but that is in fact a breath of fresh air in a morally ambiguous universe like BSG’s.

    Alas, I won’t be able to listen to this podcast until I get back home as I’m away on business using an ancient computer. So I’ll listen to it before the next episode airs next Sunday. I just hope it’s as good as “Rapture” was.

  10. BoxytheBoxed says:

    I woke up and saw it from mo taped VHS at 5:00 AM i think you frogot 1 important point they said cylone were never children. they were boarn adults. and how Athena about the baby’s stomach, they must have simiar anatomies

  11. Les Vogt says:

    Who would 3 apologize to. She knocked Anders out in “Downloaded”.

  12. DFAbram says:

    Great episode-When Helo said “Don’t make me do it” I knew that Athena was a goner. Great plan, if a bit messy.

    Didn’t 3 interrogate Bulldog? Wouldn’t he warrant an apology for three years of being held on a basestar?

    Also, not Logan’s Run, but Soylent Green (is made of people).

    Love the podcast and reading the comments.

  13. BoxytheBoxed says:

    Its GETA, she had interaction with him on Colonial 1 she proably would have been very suprised that this man was one, bit I would totaly truse Geta. Caprica 6 is gonna we tighs new wife. shes proably just like Ellen lol, just younger
    Also I dont think SB would tell a cylon-lover anout the eye. I could also see that because the cylons are roboth there was no way for to get to Earth. But the Gods wouldnt let them, so they made SB
    What if the 5 cant ressurect, but are REALLY good at surviving. SB, Baltar, Laura with Cancer, Anders with surviving the nukes, and Lee withing SB for a night

  14. Ken says:

    I’ll have to look at the show again for sure, but I thought that the one #3 recognized was the first one she walked up to. From a distance, she couldn’t see any faces because of those pesky glowing robes. As she got close enough to see the first ones face, she recognized him/her and apologized. I wonder if it couldn’t be the oracle from New Caprica? She did know a lot, maybe enough to qualify as a ‘god’. My wife (who is not a scifi fan) thinks that it is Starbuck, and that makes sense considering the painting thing.

    RE The nature of the Final Five: Why does Cavil seem surprised when it was confirmed there were 5 more Cylons? We’ve all known there were 12 total since season one. Wake up, buddy! I guess the final five were part of their religion, which explains why six would be such a firm believer.

    In response to Carol: I still think that Baltar is the chosen one. #3 just rode his coattails into the “Final 5 World” and was punished with death by nosebleed.

  15. Luc says:

    Love this web site, love the show.

    I think the secret cylon 3 saw was the Oracle she met on New Caprica. She is the one who encouraged D’Anna on her spiritual journey, she had a special (but brief) relationship with 3 and I would buy 3’s reaction of surprise and her apology when she saw her in the temple. Also, Amanda Plummer was kind of weird casting choice to have her only once appear in the series. She’s a good actress, relatively well known. The more I think about it, I think I’m right.

    Also, I wonder if, since when Cylons die they return in a tub of goo, other things do as well. Maybe Cylons go to Cylon Best Buy and pick up articles from goo bins, you can tell if their TVs are new if they have that nice new gooee smell. Ok, stupid idea, but the Oracle?

  16. Arktis says:

    Good cast.

    First off, I believe that normally only the top command level Cylons wear clothing, except for situations which require interaction with real humans. Remember how on the Basestar with all the Sharons, they were all naked? I seriously doubt they just decided that day “let’s all take our clothes off before we say hi to Boomer!”.

    2.) Whoever finds earth will surely have Racetrack within at least 5 feet of them.

    3.) What are the different things three could have been talking about when she said “you were right” to Baltar? I can only think of one.


    No supporting Dee, and Starbuck must die.

  17. Tanu says:

    Hi everyone, what a great episode this was!

    First off, i’ve been traveling for the last few weeks so i’m very behind on the podcasts. i just finished the two Very Jerry casts, how great were those! I hope you guys have him on again, all the time. lol.

    I’m looking forward to catching up on the podcasts, and am especially anticipating the listerner calls episode – thats why i haven’t read the 100+ comments on that post yet.

    Now back to this episode, two fav moments:
    1) Dee slaps Starbuck, hehehee.
    2) When Helo is going off on Laura, Adama grabs Helo’s arm to make sure he doesn’t do the president any physical damage.

    That brings me to Bernie’s comment, i agree with most of what you’ve said about Helo, but i have to say, i do not like that he never gets into trouble for his actions. he has a permanent get out of jail free card.

    As for the shooting, kudos to everyone who saw it coming, i did not expect it! i was like WHAT?!? then i was like, oh yea, that makes sense, hope she downloads on the right basestar.

    As for who Three apologized to, well, it could be someone she’s personally interacted with, but may not be necessary. It is also possible that one of the other cylons interacted with this cylon and perhaps Three is simply apologizing on the behalf of all the 7 models.

    I also loved the moment at the end of the show when Starbuck says, Leoben said i had a destiny and that it had already been written (paraphrased). as much as i wanna see the love triangle resolve, i wanna know what is going on with Starbuck’s destiny so much more! ooh, they are going to milk this one aren’t they! damn and crap!

  18. Pike says:

    *covering his eyes and rushing down to the reply box*

    It’s still not up on iTunes!! WTF? When it was on Fridays the iTunes version was up Saturday.

    This sucks.

  19. jpv206 says:

    I need to say word to Bern Unit and Armando, the Helo apologists. Helo and Anders are the stand up guys in this show. Because, they turn up their noses at a) genocide and b) unfair trials. And so do I.

    And I know that you all think Helo is a dweeb, for not liking genocide, but if the cylon(z) had been wiped out, you all, there would be NO SHOW.

    Remember in Season 1, when Apollo was the stand up guy? Standing up for constitutional democracy in the face of his father’s control instinct? Now I can’t stand him. I’m with Jacob over at “TV w/o Pity,” in that I don’t give a crap about the stupid love triange… trapezoid, whatever. Human existence is miserable enough without Starbuck and Apollo manufacturing their own pain. I’m tired of hearing you guys call Helo the wuss; there are entired episodes dedicated to that Apollo’s ennui, that crybaby.

    Finally, I think it’s funny that D’Anna uses the word “Final 5.” Makes it sound like they won a reality show.

  20. jpv206 says:

    Hey, just thought of something,

    If one of the secret cylons dies, it can’t get resurrected. Why? Because they’d have to have new bodies in storage, and Three could have just checked the supply shelf to see who the final five were.

    Hmmm… I’m sure it means something….

    I’m still wondering how Baltar survived the nuclear shock wave on Caprica….

  21. Carrie says:

    I think the Cylon Dianna saw was Tigh, because she said “I’m sorry, I didn’t know.” Sorry for torturing you and gouging your eye out, maybe?

  22. Carrie says:

    BTW I’m not saying I think Dianna tortured him personally but surely she knew about it. I’m pegging Cavil as the torturer.

  23. Sean O'Hara says:

    Pike are you referring to the Cast or the show that’s not out on iTunes? Cuz the cast posted there this morning.


  24. Pike says:


    It’s the episode that is STILL not out. WTF? Hopefully, it’s a glitch. Why was it so much faster when it was on Fridays???

    Man, this is sucking pretty hard.

  25. Sean O'Hara says:

    RE: Helo

    I think the reason I bag on Helo is not because he objects to Genocide and unfair trials it’s the way he goes about dealing with them when he decides to act on his convictions. He rushes off behind everyone and does whatever he pleases then doesn’t have to face any music afterward – hence…weenie.

    I think I would dig him more if he said “I object to genocide and I went down and killed the Cylon down in the brig so don’t bother jumping the fleet into battle, genocide blows we shouldn’t be doing it. “

    That would have been fine – but he didn’t do that. He snuck down and killed them then hid in his room and jeopardized people’s lives in battle because he didn’t have the stomach to tell the old man what he had done. Not kewl, very weenie like.

    If he’s going to make a statement, do it. Don’t pull the Star Trek I took my communicator off so now I’m a badass routine.

    Oh yeah – don’t shoot your wife, also not kewl.

  26. Carol says:

    Pike, I feel your pain. That would suck, muchly.

    Ken, thanks for following up to my comment. You could well be
    right. I was thinking that it proved that 3 was the chosen one, since
    the Hybrid said that the chosen one was the one who would see stuff
    and she’s the only one who saw things in the temple, but the Hybrid
    could have been referring to something else.

    Chuck/Sean/Audra: great podcast, I listened while at work today and
    had a hard time not giggling in my cubicle. I do want to respond to
    your comments about Helo not being a pilot. I know we don’t normally
    see him in that role, but can’t he, push comes to shove? I thought he
    was one of the pilots that was guiding the non-military ships through
    in ‘Passage’? Didn’t Kat switch her badge’o’doom with his? Didn’t we
    see him getting cleansed and staggering around a bit after one of
    the runs?

  27. The 13th Cylon says:

    Backseat Raptor Dradis guys:

    Racetrack > Helo and his bangs

    Although I do think that Helo did pilot a Raptor during The Passage.

  28. Carol says:

    Hey, Pike! I was just over at http://www.scifi.com/battlestar and in the
    ‘play video’ section, they have the full episode of “Rapture”. Can
    you watch it that way insteaad of waiting for iTunes to get their
    ducks in a row??

  29. The 13th Cylon says:

    And of course me being a wonderful reader, Carol had just pointed out that Helo flew.

    Oh yeah, the part where we see all the tubs of goo at the end was great stuff! I was wondering how much of a bottleneck there would be after certain events if they only had one tub of goo. I think someone was leading up to this, but the reason the goo is different is because Baltar has been on the ship for a while and the male models aren’t getting any…

  30. ShinyFab says:

    I really don’t have a feeling on Helo either way actually. I guess if I press myself, I see him as the epitome of good intentions gone wrong. Yes he tried to avoid genocide, but did it in a back handed way. He loves Sharon and wants a life with her, but really has no idea how to relate to her. She is a Cylon and he can never understand that. When/If she freaks out on him and turns against humans he won’t stand a chance. He has this brooding surprised look to his face ALL the time. On the other hand, he is devoted husband who loves his wife and only wants a good life with her and their daughter. The good intention is there, its the follow through he has a little trouble with.

    As for the FinalFab5 (I just love it!) – its a good point about the resurrection ships. If any of them died how could they resurrect? But at the same time, how did D’anna see them in the first place? How the FRAK did she see them in a temple of the Gods built by the 13th tribe? If the 13th tribe left so long ago, well before the creation of the Cylons, how could they possibly have created a temple capable of showing the FF5? What if: the 13th tribe created the very first Cylon skinjobs. They met up with the toaster version, subverted the toasters, created the other 7 and then the FF5 entered the general population. Hera isn’t the first Hylon. The FF5 have already melded enough with the Colonial population to have children, hence Starbuck and I would venture Apollo as well. Whew! Yet another random theory I just start bandying about. Hope you all enjoy!

  31. Pike says:

    Carol, thanks!

    Unfortunately, it’s not working for me. I’m really hoping that this is just a glitch that will get resolved, but it’s a huge PITA. I’m an addict, so I’ll deal, but I can see casual fans getting spoiled around the watercooler and deciding they don’t need to D/L after all. Not smart, Sci-Fi.

  32. Carol says:

    Bummer. 🙁

  33. Pike says:

    Carol, good on you anyway. I’m dumbfounded that it’s still not available…

  34. Carol says:

    And while they’re at it, where’s Ron’s official matching podcast, anyway?

  35. eric-michael says:

    so six joins the fleet … go figure! I wonder how this is gonna play, I mean, although she may feel some guilt, she is DIRECTLY responsible for the holocaust of the human race. I know everyone is really impressed that I guessed this before it happened, so my next guess is that the fleet will NEED baltar … afterall he is a super-genius.

  36. eric-michael says:

    oh I wonder if sharon A. still has an imunity to the virus? okay guess who WASN’T aboard the infected cylon ship (first name kara). and finally, it seems as if there is actually a direction. I was soooo fracken happy that they tied starbucks apartment into the eye of jupiter …

  37. john patrick says:

    Helo has been doing the soul searching, gut wrenching hard stuff, ever since the miniseries. Helo executed those cylons to save the a) the entire Cylon race, and b) the dignity of humanity. (By the way, what genius decided that they should all be in the same room together?) No, he didn’t submit a report afterward, but neither did he disappear to escape punishment. He was ready to accept the punishment, but Bill knew he was in the right, and Laura did too, after she got in her “how convenient.” She knew it was him, even said as much, but was complicit in not pursuing the matter.

    Helo has become the hero in this show (along with Anders). That’s why Kat went to his locker, took his radiation badge, and spared him the extra flight.

    Lee Adama, however, is the princess of pouts in every episode since Bill and Laura started getting along. In fact, the next time you see Lee pout because his feelings are hurt, everybody drinks.

    Bill and Laura need a couple name. Blaura.

    Finally, the love quadrangle is so dawsons’ creek it makes me want to slap somebody. Especially when I see the preview commericial, and we hear “when darkness turns to light, it ends tonight, it ends to night.” Really? “Tonight, on a very special friends…” Gross. I wanted to see KaraLee end in the boxing ring… they sublimate their mutual attraction with violence, they clear the air, and now they can go back to being co-workers with a history, much more interesting.

    And by the way, my understanding was that back on Algae, MajorLee was making sure that Starbuck kept getting the ‘doughnut runs’ (third time this week!) because they were having sex on the planet. I seem to remember some one saying “we can’t KEEP doing this.” And if that’s not enough for you, I just think that the open-mouthed welcome he gave her in the raptor when she arrived was a “hurry up, let’s have sex again now” kiss. Who in the podcast was saying they were still platonic? That’s a nice thought, my friend, but I don’t buy it for a second.

    Sigh. Writing this comment is so much more fulfilling than grading papers.

    One last thing: I am a cylon.

  38. fnord says:

    Haven’t listened to the cast as of yet, but i have to say “Go Chief go!” (Playing Whack a Baltar i’m sure is going to be a theme in the next few episodes.)
    Is it just me or did Dee make it across that valley with no cover and masses of Chrome Heads pretty easily? Cylons just ignoring a downed Raptor like that just seems a little sus…

  39. BoxytheBoxed says:

    I thinkl Baltar would have been seen the tattoo, thought it was cool, and told all his friends…..

  40. MrSilva says:

    Bulldog is the one 3 recognized.

    While listening to this podcast on the way to work this morning, they said one of the reasons Starbuck might be a cyclon is that she’s the only one who successfully flew a raider.

    But she’s not.

    Bulldog also flew a raider when he returned to the fleet. And when we saw Bulldog with the Cylons, he was being tortured by a 3; who seemed to be quite enjoying it.

    The way 3 apologized to the Robed One, she had to have done something serious to warrant that kind of apology.

    Bulldog is one of the final five.

  41. Carol says:

    Pike, “Rapture” is on iTunes now. Yay! Enjoy.

  42. Tanu says:

    HAHAHAHAHAA, “princess of pouts”

  43. Rich says:

    I agree that Bulldog is one of the final five. They did make a big deal to integrate him into the cast on we first met him.

    On another note, In addition to the love square, my guess is that they will also deal with Boltar and his legal defence (seeking assilumn for him and six). His attorney will be a well known TV start (remember the podcast/roundtable posted on SciFi?).

  44. eyeless says:

    It’s so obvious!

    I can’t believe no one on the show mentioned this.

    It’s Bulldog!!! He’s the only one D’anna would really have to apologize to!

    Plus, anyone who watched the video blog knows that they practically give it away.

  45. tanstaafl says:

    Hi all. A couple of things.

    First, I have just discovered the site and podcast and wanted to compliment all of you on the excellent job you are doing; this is one of the most insightful and professional podcasts I have come across. Kudos to everyone involved.

    I am still listening through your archived podcasts (my iPod has been busy) but I wanted to throw out a thought I had while watching the latest episode, specifically the scene where Baltar is standing in the temple begging to know if he is a Cylon.

    It struck me that Baltar is basically an “anti-Sharon”. Sharon is a Cylon who wants to become human (or at least to be accepted as human). Baltar is a human who wants to be a Cylon.

    In fact, there is a wonderful yin-yang symmetry going on here. Sharon is a Cylon who is accepted by (most) humans and lives among them, while Baltar is a human who is (or was) accepted by (well, some) Cylons and lived among them.

    I’m not sure that it means anything except that for the symmetry to hold then Baltar can’t be one of the final 5 but I still thought it was worth mentioning.

  46. kylie says:

    Hey guys,

    In a recent pod cast you talked about Sharon A. coming face to face with Boomer and how weird it would be to see someone who looks identical to you. You also questioned how they could tell each other apart. Wouldn’t it be the same as identical twins, triplets, octuplets etc? Even though there are lots of copies, maybe the relationships between the cylan (!) are similar to twins?

    I agree – Bulldog is one of the 5. Did his episode really move the storyline on very much? I don’t think so….

  47. The 13th Cylon says:

    So are we sponsored by Sci Fi/ The Dresden Files now? lol “Galactica Watercooler presented by The Dresden Files”. Go ahead and get BSG’s Pizza Hut and SAP.

  48. Pike says:

    FINALLY got to watch the show and listen to your cast. Nice going.

    I’m getting the feeling that Starbuck is going to be one of the F5. It just feels like an RDM thing to do. I like the idea that it might be Gaeta. We don’t know much about his backstory.

    My hat is off to anyone who saw that Helo was going to send Athena on the download express. (Although, why didn’t she do it herself and spare him? Religion thing, perhaps.)

    Caprica Six on the Bucket? That’s going to be interesting. I wonder why she decided to come along? (Also, nice to see that she’s come around on the baby-neck-snapping thing.) And when are people going to learn, when you bring a Cylon onto the ship, tell everyone first!

  49. BoxytheBoxed says:

    I think Caprica just wants to be loved by Baltar

  50. Chuck says:

    13th: We added the Google ads a while back — when I was in the process of adding them to another blog and it was easy — but we’ve drawn $0.85 since we added them.

    I think I’ll retire now!

    Kidding aside, it’s pretty entertaining to see what ads pop up. Sometimes they make sense, and, um, sometimes they don’t. My personal favorite are the religions books and videos that come up whenver we all engage in discussion of BSG religions. Heh.

  51. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Okay, I know I’ve advocated Starbuck being one of the Final Five (from the Sweet Twelve), but I’ve changed my mind. It’s waaaay too easy now. Because of the whole drawing thing, the expectation is for Starbuck to be the Cylon.

    I think she’ll be tricked into thinking she’s one and we will be too. Perhaps a Raptor/Viper accident where she’s knocked out and she’ll wake up in the goo (the nice, non-Soylent Green kind)? Leoben will con her into revealing the location of Earth. Something like that. But, Starbuck being a Cylon? Nah. It’s too easy, just like Baltar being a Cylon.

    However, we have to think about who Box Girl really interacted with. She didn’t interact with Dee. Dee was on Pegasus with Whiny Boy. She didn’t interact with Helo. She didn’t really interact with Adama, plus Adama has Lee as a son. She did interact with Laura. She did interact with Tigh (man, wouldn’t that be something???). She did interact with Anders. She definitely interacted with Gaeta.

    So, at least in my feeble mind, I think the contenders are Tigh, Anders, and Gaeta. My choice is Gaeta. He’s such a lovable guy. Everybody loves Gaeta (well, except Tigh).

    So, Chuck, are you saying that certain ads pop up when we talk about certain topics??? Okay, I’ll refrain from talking about the ad Sci-Fi is currently running on scifi/bsg for Tricia Helfer.

  52. Pike says:

    Browncoat, I like your reasoning. I’m warming to the Gaeta idea. The thing I’m wondering is, why didn’t she say something like, “I saw the final five, and by the way, remember that Gaeta guy on Baltar’s staff?”

    BTW, I could stand to see a few more of those Helfer ads. Hmm, I wonder if… Grace Park, Grace Park, Grace Park, Grace Park, Grace Park, Grace Park.

    *clicks refresh*

  53. BoxytheBoxed says:

    THe only thing Tigh loves is his booze, and killing toasters

  54. Zigdon says:

    Pike said:
    My hat is off to anyone who saw that Helo was going to send Athena on the download express. (Although, why didn’t she do it herself and spare him? Religion thing, perhaps.)

    I think they cannot commit suicide – remember how captive 6 on the Pegasus (Gina?) was trying to convince Baltar to kill her – to the point of putting the gun in his hand and pointing it at her… But she wasn’t able (it seems) to do it herself.

    Unrelated – I just finished watching the ep again (with the RDM podcast running), and they pointed out something I didn’t notice… When 3 gets boxed, and they zoom out and you see all the other goo tubs, I didn’t notice each tub had a brother Cavel next to it shutting it down as well.

    They also mentioned that the bullseye painting in the temple/Kara’s apt was actually drawn randomly by Katee – and they only later decided to actually use it in the story. I thought it was cool 🙂

  55. Pike says:

    Zig, yeah, but Gina eventually detonated her nuke, so they can do it, but it’s apparently really tough. (Unless you’re a three, which seems to be part of why they boxed her.)

    I’m guessing you haven’t heard the GWC cast yet. Audra was right on the Cavils shutting down the Three’s thing (I missed it first go-round.)

    And frak you for mentioning the Katee doing the painting thing. I was SO going to go there… In the RDM cast for the original episode (forgot which) he did mention that Katee and (someone else. Helo?) did that part of the set decoration, and it was all her and (the other one) just having fun. (I haven’t heard the current RDM cast yet. I help out on BSWiki’s transcription project, so it takes me a little while to get through them.)

  56. aiko_aiko says:

    I was really shocked that the Chief didn’t have as much of a role as you would think, especially given that he found the temple. And a lot of people thought he was The Chosen One… hmmm… maybe he is less important than a lot of us thought?????

    On a similar note – what wat The Chosen One all about??? What were they suppose to do again? Did we see it happen?

  57. Pike says:

    aiko, yeah, that bugged me too. All build up, what with Tyrol having his mashed-potato(e) moment, and then… what? He couldn’t figure it out, and then he couldn’t blow it up? Fortunately there was a supernova that was about to do that for them. And what was the connection b/t the temple->road to earth and the revelation of the F5?

    And then the whole chosen one thing. So who was it? D’anna? Kinda seems it, she’s the only one to get something out of the temple proper. Baltar? Um, how? Chief? Well, no, apparently. So now the Chosen One is boxed? Whaa?

    I will say, this is the one thing that constantly bugs me about BSG. They are SO episodic (we’ve had maybe a handful of ‘standalone’ episodes) but they don’t really use the format correctly. The whole ‘Blackbird’ thing from season two is a great example. That should have been built up much earlier, but we get it and then use it in one episode.

    They should hire me as a writer. I can promise there would be more build up, and *way* more nekkid Sharons…

  58. aiko_aiko says:

    Audra, Chuck, Sean – One comment on your theories about who will die on the podcast. I assume your comments came from the trailers for this episode. But we saw who died! Sharon x 2!!!

    And I don’t want anyone else to died yet… except maybe Anders. I am not an Anders fan – Kara is too good for him.

  59. Carol says:

    Just re-watched the episode, along with listening to the RDM podcast.
    One of the things he says towards the end is particularly interesting.
    He mentioned that it’s never happened before, losing a model (due to
    boxing all versions of it), and there used to be 12 models and now there
    are 11. So I guess we know that none of the Five have been completely
    boxed (which I had at least thought about at one point, as a possible
    explanation as to why we haven’t seen them, to our knowledge).

  60. The 13th Cylon says:

    As Chuck would say, “That was the best Racetrack-less episode”. lol Maybe we did see her in the white Emperor Palpatine getup the 5 were wearing. Who knows…

    And Pike, it was Helo and Starbuck’s characters who painted the apartment.

  61. The 13th Cylon says:

    Whoops, not “characters”. That would be the actors who play them. Luckily Cavil wasn’t around to see my goof up and box me. Mass hysteria throughout the basestars!!

  62. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Hell, yeah, Pike. More Sharons in the Buff. You got my vote.

    Good point about Sharon, aiko. I wonder if that counts as the “someone will die” victim?

    But, whatever happens, they CANNOT kill Hotdog. Or Racetrack. Definitely not Racetrack.

  63. Pike says:

    13, I got you. I even used “Helo” in my original post because I can’t remember how to spell his frakin’ name. Tim*somestuff*

    And aiko… Starbuck is too good for Anders? I suspect that’s a minority position ’round these parts…

  64. Browncoat Bryan says:

    That’s interesting, Carol. I never thought that the Cylon models are down to 11. Don’t they say something about that in the pre-“Previously on Battlestar Galactica” opener? I wonder if they’ll change that (like they do with the survivor number). Or…. The Cylons could create another model and bring their number back up to 12 models (and that would perfectly parallel the 12 Colonies).

    So, who would be the newest Cylon? We could have Cylon Idol. The judges are Simon, Boomer, and Cavil.

  65. Pike says:

    BB, yeah, Racetrack has to keep on keepin’ on. Hotdog has to go at some point, otherwise he has an anti-red shirt (blue shirt?)

  66. Stephan Kinsella says:

    Theories: 1. There will be an attempt to prosecute/punish Baltar. He will argue he is subject to the pardon by Roslyn. The legal dispute will be whether he was “in the fleet”.

    2. After the survivors reach earth, the cylons do too, and they cross breed, somehow lose their technology, and start over… we are cylons.

    3. They never find earth. They find a new planet, uninhabited, and name it earth. We are their descendants.

  67. Pike says:

    BB, wouldn’t Simon (the Amer. Idol model) and Cavil be redundant?

  68. Pike says:

    Stephan, well, 2 & 3 are kind of spreading your bets there, aren’t they?

  69. Carol says:

    Browncoat Bryan, Cylon Idol is a shiney idea. One of the judges
    would HAVE to be Tigh. Can’t you hear him now? “That was craaaaaap’.

  70. Pike says:

    Heh, I’m picturing Laura as a twisted version of Paula Abdul.

    “That was a very nice effort, and I could tell that you really tried your best. Thank you very much.”

    Turns to Doral, the show’s host, “Space her.”

  71. Browncoat Bryan says:

    LOL!!!! I was thinking Doral also.

    “Doral, out!”

    Tigh would be one of those guest judges. I can see it now…

    Some woman auditions for the Cylon job…
    Simon (the Doctor): “Yeee-ah. I think you got it, dog. I think she should go to Old Caprica.”
    Boomer: “I think she was very good. I vote she goes to Old Caprica.”
    Tigh: “‘Very good’??? She was very good, my eye!! She was craaaaap.”
    Cavil: “Uh, Tigh, we already took your eye. (turning to the auditioner) But, you, my dear contestant, were absolutely dreadful. The chances of you becoming a Cylon is about as good as Helo getting pimp-slapped by Adama for doing something stupid. However, if you could do the swirl, I could work something out…”
    Tigh: “HEY!!!”

  72. Boomer "The Brother" says:

    I usually check Daily Motion dot com for episodes. Those pesky French and Canucks usually have eps up within a day or so of it dropping.


  73. ShinyFab says:

    HA! Cylon Idol would be awesome! Do you think during the make over the Cylon clothiers would ‘surprise’ them with their very own model fashion line? Following Cylon Idol, the event of the fashion season! Cylon Fashion Awards, hosted by your very own Doral and D’Anna in a box!

  74. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Wow I was late getting to this cast, one of those weeks. Everyone has been posting like mad and it’s great! Loved the episode. A lot of the things I thought might happen did but always with a twist. Never saw the whole Three line getting boxed. Deanna definitely had it coming but the scene where another Three defies the rest of the group was perfect. And LOVED the way they tied Kara’s painting to the temple by Helo pulling out the old pictures.

    The preview for next week kind of put me off but there is a bigger story to be addressed. They’ve got Baltar and Caprica in the brig they HAVE to deal with that. My biggest question, did Caprica bring Baltar’s fainting couch with her? Seriously there is going to be a line to beat the hell out of him. Kinda like in the movie Airplane with everyone smacking the hysterical lady around.

    I just can’t get behind Bulldog as one of the Final Five. He was a one shot throw away character we don’t know. The shock of revealing them needs to affect us more and that seems like someone who is more integral to the show and has been around a long time.

    I’m down with Helo and his role for the story. He has taken over for Lee as being the ultra moral compass in the show and sometimes right decisions have very bad effects but they are still right. He is deserving of getting thrown in the brig but what would be the fun of having to visit him behind bars every week? He makes a much better consequence vacuum walking around free.

    Oh I and I’ve gotten the impression his current role in CIC is Officer of the Deck.

    I’m still wondering about how Temple of the Five Priests was linked to the Final Five. These religions get more and more intertwined the more we learn of them.

    Finally after hearing you guys with guests, which I loved, it was nice to hear a new cast for a new ep where you just riff off each other.

    p.s. Audra, I was just as fixated on Deanna’s cleavage in the white jacket as you were. Not sure what Sean and Chuck could have been watching. 🙂

  75. Pike says:

    Slingshot, I’m with you on the Bulldog thing. It would be a disappointing reveal.

    What is the role of Officer of the Deck?

    And yeah, I knew exactly what Audra was talking about. I don’t know how Chuck and Sean missed it, they practically composed the shot around her cleavage.

  76. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Officer of the Deck is basically the 3rd in charge after the CO and XO in the CIC. They are in charge of the basic functions of the ship like navigation and damage control. Unlike XO and CO this is a title they hold only while they fufill the role so there can be several different people who perform the job but only one OOD on duty at any given time. I can’t remember the other character’s name (maybe Cpt. Kelly?) but we’ve seen others perform this function in other eps.

  77. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Hey, Slingshot. I think you’re talking about Hoshi. And there was a Capt. Kelly. He was the one who was monitoring the DRADIS during Exodus, Pt II (yeah, I got that one locked up on my iPod).

  78. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Yeah Hoshi could be one. Between the Pegasus shake up, New Caprica and blowing up the Pegasus there have been several background characters who have seemed to fill this role. I’m totally guessing it’s what Helo is doing but it makes sense after Tigh came back.

  79. Lt. Slingshot says:

    You know guys as soon as I typed that I remembered Gaeta. He used to have this role (at least it always looked that way to me) and may have it again. We did see Helo in a raptor in The Passage so it may be the case he’s just back to flight duty. Then again there will be more than one OOD. Anyone got RDM’s cell number so we can clear this up? 😛

  80. ShinyFab says:

    If we aren’t counting NC, D’Anna had major contact with Tigh, Roslin, Adama, and Bulldog. She met and talked with a lot of the major crew players, including Starbuck and Lee. She could have been sorry for Scooping out Tigh’s out, shooting Adama in the chest, torturing Bulldog, or allowing Leoben to play house with Kara. I think I might be leaning toward Tigh. We know he was married to Ellen and friends with Adama, but he has no other family ties. Neither does Roslin. The only thing I can think of for Roslin is maybe almost killing her on NC? but that seems a little thin to me. From the sorry part I think they want us to think it was Bulldog. That would be the easiest connection. Either that or we’re getting ready for more flashbacks where she makes Jammer her love slave.

  81. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Shiny, just to throw out a different take on Deanna saying, “You… Forgive me I had no idea”.

    Maybe that wasn’t an apology for anything she specifically did to someone but a realization that the Cylon had been pursuing and attacking this group of people lead by this figure. I expand this beyond the obvious leaders of Adama and Laura. It could be any major character with influence. Could the “Forgive me” be aimed more towards ‘I’m sorry I’ve been fraking up your plan’?

  82. Pike says:

    Odd. I’ve just watched it again, and I’m noticing that in the ‘bridge’ scene on the basestar (when Three defies the others and lets one ship go–about four minutes in, iTunes version.) there seems to be these blond guys in the background. I can’t figure out whom they’re supposed to be.

  83. Carol says:

    I think they’re meant to be Leobens, but they’re not very good
    replicas, since the hair isn’t quite right (in some of the shots, it’s
    clearly blonde, longer the Leobens hair, but shorter than 6’s).

    Perhaps, as time goes on, they’re getting more and more
    individuality and they want to look different. We’ve seen 6’s
    with at least three different hair colors, the 8’s have different
    hair-styles. If I was a Cylon, I’d add pink extensions to my hair and
    wear weirdo clothes, just to be different.

    Another thought occurs to me. Perhaps some of the collaborators
    decided to go with the Cylons instead of dealing with some really
    pissed off people in the fleet?

  84. Pike says:

    Carol, good points. I don’t think they’re New Capricans though, because they seem to be interacting with the water interface.

    I suspect they were extras (or an extra, they all seem alike) who were supposed to be more indistinct than they ended up being.

  85. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Pike you made me freeze frame that more times than I’d like to admit. After trying to match features (could be a Doral or maybe a Leoben) it finally hit me. None of those figures in the background stand up to scrutiny as being exact matches but you can’t say for sure who they aren’t either. I could be way off here but my money is on them just being fuzzy budget saving stand-ins for those shots. Unless you pour over it like the Zapruder Film you’d just get the impression of Dorals, Leobens, Simons, etc since your attention is on the confrontation at the table. You have the displaced focus of an autistic child and I salute you for it. Nice catch

  86. The 13th Cylon says:

    Well any homely white guy in a rediculous red or baby blue outfit on the show can automatically pass for Doral. The guy who played Simon wasn’t in Downloaded (one of my all time favorite episodes), but his character was.

  87. Carol says:

    Yeah, Pike, I think you’re right — they’re probably cost-saving
    stand-ins. RDM has spoken several times in the podcasts about
    what a pain in the pa-toot it is to do that multiple copies in the same
    shot scenes. I didn’t notice them until you mentioned it, and had to
    go back and specifically look for them (complete with slow motion, etc).

    On a different note. I think that the Cavil’s know who the final five are.
    He doesn’t strike me as a ‘toe the company line, I won’t think about it
    if I’m not supposed to’, kind of person. He’s a bit of a rabble-rouser/
    manipulator. Combined with someone else noticing how there
    were 6 drapes/panels and only 5 of them had a body standing in front
    of it, one wonders if Cavil isn’t really a 6th final ‘five’, if that makes sense.
    Giving them insight and access to what the rest are up to. 6 and 6
    appeal more to my sense of symmetry than 5/7 does.

  88. Tanu says:

    good point Carol, i did notice that there were 6 drapes but then the camera moved away so i just figured the five were standing in the space between the drapes (here audra breaks into the DMB song, lol). i must rewatch and confirm. i just updated my ipod with the episode so i’ll try to catch it on the train.

  89. Pike says:

    Slingshot, after this last episode, I think it’s clear that my displaced focus doesn’t match up to Chuck and Sean’s. 😉

    Carol, you may be right about Cavil. RDM mentioned in this podcast that Cavil is the ‘keeper of secrets.’ It’s not clear, though, if he knows what the secrets are, or if he’s just keeping them secret. It’s clear, though, that for all his impiety, he knows more than the others (possibly excepting D’Anna) about the nature of the Cylon religion. The “Brother” moniker may not be as ironic as it first seemed.

  90. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Oh, snap, Carol!! You’ve got to be onto something. What if Cavil does know who the other Five are and he’s there to protect that secret, regardless of the consequences….

    Why was he on the planet with Baltar and D’Anna? Was he attempting to manipulate the other Cylons into allowing Adama to nuke the planet because he knew of the greater “threat”?

    I think Cavil is the Cylon’s HAL 9000. Daisy, Daisy….

  91. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Nah… not HAL 9000. More like the android dude in the first Alien movie.

  92. the forester says:

    Very disappointed by “Rapture,” very disappointed in the way season three has been progressing. I just wrote a blog post called Point Me to the Nearest Airlock explaining eight ways the writers are stretching suspension of disbelief to the breaking point. Galactica is no longer worth $1.99/week to me.

  93. the forester says:

    Since I’ve already gotten my first critical comment, allow me to say that originally I was a major proponent and fan of the show, as evidenced by this earlier post: Iraq and Battlestar Galactica.

  94. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Forester your first post on this site is to announce that you are no longer watching the show. Your second is to reference a comment on your blog, not a comment here. What is your point?

  95. the forester says:

    Interested in hearing what other Galactica fans are thinking. Am I crazy? Is your intelligence not insulted by the recent writing?

    From your comment, Lt. Slingshot, it seems you’re miffed that I’m either detracting from the show or abusing this thread (or both). If I’ve done the latter, I apologize, and certainly won’t mind if a moderator deletes my comments. If the former, I don’t fault you for wanting to continue watching. Maybe you have more time/money than me. Maybe you’re more gracious as a viewer than I am. But I have a hard time believing that no one else has a problem with the way God/the gods are becoming active in the plot, or with the fact that Helo never faces consequences for defending cylons at human expense, or with the way the writers are using Starbuck to eclipse other characters (the Wolverine phenomenon).

    So my point is — am I nuts? Is anyone else throwing in the towel? Was Time Magazine took quick with its recognition, or have missteps simply accumulated that quickly?

  96. ShinyFab says:

    I obviously missed a lot of details in Rapture and now I’ve got to go back and watch. I hadn’t thought about D’Anna’s apology that way Slingshot. It is definitely possible she knows them, but had no major interaction in regards to some sort of pain SHE inflicted. I think I’m getting all turned around by this now. It brings me back to Dee, Gaeta, and Tigh. Gaeta has been largely involved in Galactica’s tactical missions as well as the NC insurgency. He could very well be an FF5. I’m going to watch it again and see what else strikes me. Good thoughts everyone!

  97. Pike says:

    Forester, do you listen to GWC? Read some of the above comments, there’s been *lots* of discussion about Helo’s “Consequence Vacuum.”

    The show certainly has its faults (RDM readily points them out in his own podcast) but for most of us they’re not deal-breakers.

  98. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Forester not miffed at all just puzzled by your motivation to state that you are done with the show and then link to your blog. There are plenty of comments from this last podcast and previous ones regarding Helo’s lack of culpability for his actions both pro and con and holes in the writing but it hasn’t driven anyone here away to the best of my knowledge.

  99. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Shiny, Deanna could have very well been citing a personal wrong she inflicted. I was just throwing out an alternative possibility since things are rarely what they seem. My predictions are like a batting average, 3 out of 10 is about the best I hope for. I am wondering how far we’ll have to go in 3.5 before we get the next reveal.

    I’m still going round and round with the fact that the Final Five were linked to a human temple. I suspect there is more to be learned down the road in that regard. I just listened to the RDM cast and heard the bit about Cavil being the ‘keeper of secrets’. I love/hate it when he drops little bombs like that without more explanation. But that sounds like more Cavil down the road which is always good in my book.

  100. Pike says:

    Post 100!

    OK, bear with me on this one. What if the F5 that D’Anna spoke to was Cavil? It would explain a few things.

    1) Her apology could be for her own actions (serial suicide et al.)
    2) That’s why D’Anna didn’t blurt out the name of the person she saw before she was boxed—she was talking to him.
    3) That’s why the Cavils wanted them boxed—they didn’t want that info to get out for some reason.

    Obvious problem, why would she say ‘you’ll see them too?’

  101. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Ok Pike I’ll bite. That reasoning is as good as any. Let’s assume he was the one, doesn’t that reduce the number of the 12 models to 11?

  102. the forester says:

    Lt. Slingshot, Pike, thanks for the feedback. You’re right, it was a long thread but I’ve come across others discussing Helo. He’s definitely a moral vanguard, just not one I always agree with — I think the biological attack was warranted, but then that gets into my view that the cylons really aren’t people after all (which disagrees with the show’s writers). Maybe that’s the reason for my sense of finality — an overall feeling that the writers’ philosophy is departing from my own.

    Oh well. The show had some fantastic moments — it was a great ride. I’ll never forget the Galactica FTLing into the New Caprica atmosphere and launching its fighters while in freefall. Amazing.

    Thanks for the discussion, everyone.

  103. Pike says:

    Slingshot, yeah, that’s a tough one to get around. A couple possibilities:

    1) Cavil is a “transitional” model, created in the likeness of one of the F5, which in turn created the others.

    2) Each of the F5 is a prototype of the 7, with two additional models created (that ultimately proove to be defective.) Possibly the number of models increases to the next prime number each “model year.” First there was one*, then 2, 3, 5, and now 7. The previous models hang around during the subsequent “model year”, possibly as insurance, possibly to safeguard the knowledge of how to create new models.

    *One is not actually a prime, I know, but it’s still a nice progression, and it might be the origins of the Cylon/s/z monotheism.

  104. Pike says:

    Forester, sorry that the show’s defects have become too much for you. I still find it a great ride.

  105. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Pike, you reasoned your way out of that quite nicely. Better than some of the dead ends that occasionally make their way into the script. Well everyone and I do mean everyone is on the table for the F5 so I wouldn’t count anyone out at this point. I’d prefer the F5 to be humans we know and care about but anything is possible. Could be Cavil is just trying to protect Scott Bakula from being revealed after he jumped into one of the F5.

  106. Pike says:

    Slingshot, LMAO.

    Yeah, I know my theory is a stretch, but it does show that the five could be literally anyone.

  107. Pike says:

    Holy Frak! Slingshot may be right! Cavil is there to protect Scott Bakula!

    Check this out, courtesy of WikiP:

    Much of Quantum Leap’s premise comes from another television series Bellisario worked on, the 1978-79 sci-fi series Battlestar Galactica. In the episode “Experiment in Terra” Captain Apollo appears to the people of Terra in the identity of Terran astronaut “Col. Charlie Watts”. To them, he looks and sounds just like Charlie even though we the audience see him in is true identity. It is similar to the way Sam looks like whomever he leaps into. He is also guided on his “mission” by John, an intangible person that only Apollo can see and hear. He tells Apollo who everyone sees him as, who the people around him are, and suggests to him what he must do – just as Al helps Sam. The episode was written by Glen A. Larson

  108. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Pike LOL You wouldn’t be Glen Larson any chance?

    btw did Chuck ever send you my email?

  109. Pike says:

    Slingshot, no (to both.) Chuck?

  110. Chuck says:

    Yep — did it just an hour ago. You know me — right on time. 🙂

  111. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Thanks Chuck!

  112. Wallacethebutler says:

    I really enjoy the podcasts. This is my first time commenting here. But I have to say Helo rocks . If he’s to blame for possibly letting Sharon give all her secrets to the Cylons then so’s Adama for letting cylon Sharon haves access to the Galactica’s secrets.

    I haven’t read all the comments but does anyone else think the final 5 and the lords of Kobol might be one in the same? Why would the final five appear at a human temple?

    I think Starbuck’s definitely a cylon.

    Here’s two more kudos to Helo. He does what he has to do and always puts himself on the line.

  113. Pike says:

    Wallace, welcome aboard. Excellent point about Adama’s trust in Sharon. He had to know that it was always a possibility.

    I’ll have to ruminate on that one.

  114. Lt. Slingshot says:

    I was just listening to the podcast again and guys Starbuck was his mistress in the full sense of doing the nasty. Dee pointed out that Starbuck had been down there more times than the flip of the coin for the rotation should have allowed. Peeling off clothes looked to be their standard greeting. Lee maybe a moral guy but he’s still a guy. There had been multiple rendezvous’s before he finally said no more.

  115. Pike says:

    Slingshot, that’s how I read it, but listening to RDM’s cast made me think that it was intended to be read as they were doing some ‘heavy petting’ but no actual sex.

  116. Carol says:

    Just a little ‘I miss having the show on Friday night’ sigh.

    It used to be, a long time ago, the thing I looked forward to on
    Friday was a new episode of Farscape. A friend and I would chat
    at work every Friday, ‘It’s Friday, and that starts with F, which
    stands for Farscape’.

    Then Battlestar Galactica was on Friday nights. I really looked forward

    It’s just not the same having to wait until Sunday.

    I’m glad it’s still on the air, of COURSE, but I do wish it was on Friday.

    On a different note, Chuck, I think, asked if people still wanted Frak parties and I do think it’s nice to have one. Whether or not many people watch live on Sunday, it gives an easy spot to discuss the new episode afterwards before the podcast becomes avail. Just one opinion.

  117. Carol says:

    Whoa, RDM has the podcast up for ‘Taking a Break From All Your Worries’ already on iTunes! Must resist….

  118. eric-michael says:

    it’s 10 o’clock on friday night … THIS SUCKS! I HATE THIS NEW TIME SLOT!

  119. Moe says:

    Misc thoughts –

    Try this on for size – Cally as a final five. Chief seems to have some extra sensory ability to sense things – finding the temple for ex. He beat up Cally because he thought she was a Cylon… could he have been right? The other Cylons don’t know who the five are so Cavill could have been mistaken when he told Chief that Cally wasn’t a Cylon. Also – I haven’t rewatched Rapture but they way Cally ran back into the temple to get Chief seemed a bit odd..

    Another thought on the final five – We do have to remember how they decided Who shot JR? They chose Kristin because the producers were having a contract dispute with Mary Crosby and wanted to get rid of her.

    Love the Love Square. Is that anything like Hollywood Squares? I’ll take Baltar to block..

  120. BoxytheBoxed says:

    ive got an idea how about they all die then i wouldnt have to tape the episodes

  121. Pike says:

    Moe, I like it. I think someone else here brought up the Cally idea a while back because I remember thinking that it’d be interesting to see Tyrol react this time around. “All my girlfriends turn out to be Cylons.” Then he gets all Tighed up.

    Does anyone here actually prefer the new time?

  122. Moe says:

    I don’t like the knew time especially since iTunes was so slow getting the episode up. I think it is a bit of overcompensation that RDMs podcast for the next episode is already up. Or it could just be an oops by some iTunes tech. I did check out Dresden Files and liked it. Hopefully the two shows can support each other ratings wise.

    The final five/”the plan”/the love square/ the timeline is getting a bit tangled it seems. I’m getting more afraid that the Grand Unified Resolution is going to be less than compelling. I’m not trying to be negative – the worst BSG is way better than most everything else out there.

  123. Chris DiBona says:

    Some thoughts:

    Since we’re parsing the “One will die, one will be a cylon, one will find earth” commercial, I’d say that there are two people who could be all three…

    First is obviously Starbuck….she could Die, wake up in goo (oatmeal edition), and find earth with her butt-tattoo.

    Second is…D! Same reason, sans tattoo.


    1) Strange attraction to Lee Adama, despite his whininess and availability of anders.

    2) Lack of verifiable pre-fleet backstory in the show or books (yes, I’ve read these awful things….did you know six’s name when she dated Baltar was Natasi? WTH?)

    3) Gapping when you wonder how they survived… like how doualla made it to starbucks raider, starbuck surviving , well, everything.

    Just saying.


  124. Carol says:

    OMGs, I just noticed something interesting.

    I was re-watching “Scattered” (first episode of Season 2, I think), and
    7 minutes 55 seconds into it (for the iTunes version of it), there’s a
    great shot of Baltar and Head 6 looking down at the white cradle. This
    is where Head 6 is telling Baltar that they’re going to have a girl child,
    etc. The interesting bit is it’s the Exact Same 6 white panels streaming down
    from above in the background. I have my computer freeze-framed on that
    shot and my tv freeze-framed on the shot of D’anna(sp?) from Rapture
    where we can see the same panels and it’s creepy how similar the shot is!
    Complete with orange fiery glow between the panels, and even the
    horizontal lines towards the bottom! I don’t know what it means that
    they’re clearly intended to be the same, but isn’t that interesting??

  125. Carol says:

    Good points, Chris. Particularly #1. I’m sorry, a choice between Lee
    and Anders? No Brainer! Anders is So Much hotter than Lee, and he
    understands and accepts Kara, warts and all, whereas if Lee and Kara
    ever did try to make it a real relationship, he would be whining all the
    time about the stuff she does (and who here really thinks she’d straighten
    up and fly right if in a relationship with Lee?)

  126. BoxytheBoxed says:

    There form Earth re-watch “33” they have the same seconds, minutes with same time betweeen seconds

  127. Pike says:

    Chris, Starbuck also fraks any guy she’s alone with for more than fifteen minutes–just like Sharon. Coincidence?

    Carol, it’s the same location (an Opera house, IIRC.) It seems to have become a Cylon “heaven” of sorts. (Love the “OMGs” BTW)

    Boxy, they also speak English, so I don’t know how much weight to put behind that. It may be that they just didn’t want to be too confusing.

  128. Carol says:

    Aww shucks, and here I thought it was another painting on Kara’s
    wall thing. Hmm. Now we’re back to either Baltar is a Cylon, or
    Head 6 really is more than just a psychosis — not that that tells us much.

  129. Lt. Slingshot says:

    The fact that the majority of you dislike the new time scares me a bit. I know all of you are loyal fans and will still watch but it makes me a little nervous since we’re still waiting on the green light for season four. I hope this move wasn’t’ a show killer. I really prefer the new time but seems like I might be the only one.

    Of all the possibilities for the final five, Cally is the only one I’d actually put money on. The mind frak that would put on the Chief is just too evil to resist. Plus Hera needs another little hylon to play with. Hmmm maybe Cottle is one too since he might need to help keep Nick a secret.

  130. Pike says:

    Carol, it *is* another “painting” thing. They didn’t lay either of those down expecting to expand on them later. They looked back on them and decided to run with them during the later writing sessions.

  131. Dan, the Lord of Kobol says:

    This episode did very little for me. i
    Don’t get me wrong, there was nothing technically wrong with it in my view – It was entertaining, but it just didn’t live up to the expectations I had after seeing “Eye of Jupiter”.

    And it looks like Anders’ untimely doom has been delayed… for now. Also, I personally think that this episode shows *why* Anders should become an officer/marine.

  132. Pike says:

    Dan, that would be an interesting arc for Anders, and it would make a lot of sense. RDM was originally going to do something like that for Lee and Dee this season, but it was dropped for time/story reasons.

    I’m with you on Rapture not living up to the expectations of Eye of Jupiter. Hopefully they’ll pick up on some of the things (like Tyrol’s mystical direction finder) that didn’t really get answered.

  133. Cro Magnon says:

    Here is my theory: I think Galactica will arrive in our future. Either that or the writers have mixed up Greek and Roman mythology. The supernova was called the “Eye of Jupiter”. Jupiter was the highest god of the Romans. The Romans took over the religion from the Greeks. The Greek name of Jupiter was Zeus. But in some earlier episode Tom Zarek refers to Adama as “Zeus has returned” (when Adama came back after being shot). So the humans seem to use Greek and Roman names for the gods. But if the humans from the Galactica fleet were supposed to be our ancestors on Earth (and not the Cro Magnon) this would not be possible (let alone speek and write in English and driving around in Humvees on Caprica :-)).

    So my take is that the people who settled on Kobol came from Earth in our future. They were probably some New Age wackos believing in a mix of Greek and Roman gods and artificial intelligence too. The 13th tribe then decided to return to Earth. This is the only logical explanation how they could have build that planetarium on Kobol which shows the star constellations as seen from Earth. They must have known about Earth when they were leaving Kobol for it. Ok, they also could have send out discovery missions to search for habitable planets and could have found Earth while others found the other 12 planet where they founded later the 12 colonies. But this would ignore the facts about the prehistorc men like Cro Magnon from 40,000 years ago excavated on (real) planet Earth and quite disappointing. So Earth must be the birthplace of mankind.

    I also believe that the remaining five Cylons are somehow “good” ones. Maybe the humans on Kobol have done research in genetics and AI and had invented the first version of the 12 Cylon models to make life easier. The war between these Cylons and the humans were the reason they had to leave Kobol. Seven of the Cylons were bad and five were good and helped the humans. Thus the Temple of Five.

  134. Pike says:

    Cro Mag, that is certainly a possibility. The episode was actually titled “Eye of Zeus” early on, but that was changed for purely linguistic reasons (Jupiter just sounded better, according to RDM.) So it could also be that the actual language of the show (which we hear as English) simply has synonyms for “Zeus” that are best translated as Jupiter, et al. Like Boxy’s comment about the clocks, this seems to be something that is best understood as a concession to popular usage, rather than a clue.

    Unless, as always, the writers decide otherwise…

  135. Cro Magnon says:

    Pike, ok, if he has said that it is probably not an hint. But I’m a bit disappointed. The writers should not do this. Also there were much older civilizations and religions on Earth than the Greek one. In fact several thousand years older (like Egypt, Sumer or the Indus Valley civilization). So the Kobol religion can hardly be source for the first religion on Earth. Well, except if they decided to bring Galactica down to Stargate level :-). Then I guess Galactica probably will found Atlantis and because Atlantis was destroyed we have forgotten about it… 🙂

  136. Cro Magnon says:

    Ok, I have listened to the RDM podcast now where he talks about using Jupiter instead of Zeus. He says Zeus seemed “too mystical” and “too over the top” and it was also a nice way to broaden the pantheon of the gods and the references etc.. He also says they have used Roman references before. Well, either they don’t really care (then we are at Stargate level :-)) or it has some meaning.

  137. Atersolitas says:

    OK, I’ve been thinking about who will be revealed as the next Cylon for a while now. I’ve decided to try to apply some filters to people and then group them into those who might be a Cylon and those I believe have been ruled out. Here are the assumptions I’m working under:

    1) Cylons cannot reproduce without humans
    2) The only Human/Cylon offspring produced has been Hera (based upon what both the Cylons and Humans believe)
    3) Cylons are brought into being as adults and do not appear to grow up as children
    4) Female Cylons’ backs appear to glow red when engaged in sexual intercourse (we’ve never seen male Cylons engage in sexual intercourse, as far as we know)

    Based on these three assumptions, I believe we can more or less rule out the following people:

    1) Admiral Adama – he has had two sons (true if assumptions 1 and 2 are correct)
    2) Lee Adama – is the son of Admiral Adama (true if assumptions 2 or 3 are correct)
    3) Chief Tyrol – has had a son (true if assumptions 1 and 2 are correct)
    4) Cally – has had a son with Chief Tyrol (true if assumptions 1 and 2 are correct)
    5) Starbuck – don’t recall her back ever glowing *grin* (true if assumption 4 is correct)
    6) Helo – had a child with Sharon (definitely cannot be a Cylon if assumption 1 is correct)

    Person who could possibly be a Cylon but unlikely:

    1) Col. Tigh – does not satisfy any of the assumptions but has been around Admiral Adama for a substantial amount of time and fought in the first Cylon war.

    People who very well may be a Cylon:

    1) Dee – We have no knowledge of the luminescence of her back, nor is there anybody to collaborate whether she truly had parents or not; likelihood that D’Anna would have reacted as she did if it was Dee not very likely, however.
    2) Anders – Also do not know whether he had parents or not, and D’Anna would certainly recognize him from the episode “Downloaded”, where Caprica Six killed D’Anna to save Anders – pretty good chance that he is a Cylon.
    3) President Roslin – No knowledge of back luminosity, parentage and would certainly have been somebody that D’Anna would have reacted to in the vision, but as a public figure her history would be more in the spotlight than most – fair chance that she is a Cylon.
    4) Oracle Selloi – D’Anna would be very familiar with her and it would be quite interesting considering their previous interaction on New Caprica – pretty good chance that she is a Cylon.
    5) Baltar – has many indicators pointing to him being a Cylon, but ultimately it just seems too contrived and most likely a red herring. Still, can’t rule him out.
    6) Gaeta – No proof of whether he had parents or not, and certainly somebody D’Anna interacted with previously (given his position in the Baltar government) – pretty good chance that he is a Cylon.
    7) Zarek – No proof of whether he had parents or not, but he was an important enough figure in history that Lee talks about studying him in one of his classes – small chance of him being a Cylon
    8) Dr. Cottle – No proof of whether he had parents or not; a character that would be interesting enough as a Cylon reveal but would not hugely alter the plotline – decent chance that he is a Cylon

    Anyway, this is my first stab at trying to look at this based on what I perceive the Cylon rules are – of course, any or all of these assumptions may be faulty or RDM may just decide to toss them out, but I thought it would at least be interesting to approach the problem like this.

    BTW – Great podcasts! I look forward to them almost as much as the actual Galactica episodes!

  138. Jaz says:

    Hey there everyone. Wow, what amazing comments! I just read every last one of them and had such a great time doing it! Here are my rambling thoughts…

    1) I think it was Carol who seemed unsure whether Head 6 is a chip or psychosis. She’s a figment of Baltar’s imagination according to Michael Rhymer and RDM in the podcast for the miniseries.

    2) I agree with Tanu that the cylon who D’Anna saw and said “sorry” to is not necessarily someone we’ve seen before. (Although my second guess is Bulldog…David Eiych seemed to love that guy in the video blog on scifi.)

    3) Lee is a total whiner baby and needs to be slapped. Regularly.

    4) High five to JPV about Baltar surviving the shockwave in the miniseries. I’ve puzzled over that for years now and I think he has to be a cylon. I mean how did he survive that?!? And WTF is up with the scifi.com preview with Baltar waking up in goo next to 6??

    5) Props to ShinyFab, S Kinsella, WallacetheButler and everyone else who thinks humans and cylons are somehow part of the same race/species. How else to explain the intersection of the F5 and the temple? I think all humans are actually a form of cylon! And I definitely the F5 are the Lords of Kobol.

    6) That Cylon Idol thing cracks me up! I hope someone does that in a short film and puts it up on youtube. 🙂

    7) Dee Rocked in this episode. What a great soldier to have on your side. Keeps her head, does what she’s told, gets the job done. Someone should slap her for staying with that whiner baby Lee.

    8) I love BSG and I love your podcasts. Keep up the great work!

  139. Juwan says:

    I have a theory about the identity of the cylon that d’anna apologized too. remember, back on new capicra the oracle that d’anna talked too about god and the relationship between the human god(s) and the cylon god. she was played by amanda plummer who even though is not a very big named actress but a significant guest star for any show and i was surprised that they just used her for one throwaway scene. i think she’s one of the five and the way d’anna kind of wrote her off back on new caprica as crazy would warrant an apology.

    think about it all the new cylon reveals since the miniseries have not been anyone we already knew they were all guest stars. lucy lawless, dean stockwell, rick worthy. makes sense to bring her back as a cylon.

  140. Mike says:

    Just listened to #26 great work and one comment…

    If you watch the Athena Boomer scene, and see the look Athena gives Boomer with that glance they hatched a plan. Caprica got played and with that one glance Boomer and Athena worked together in a good cop bad cop manner to help rescue the baby. Caprica totally fell for it.

  141. Carol says:

    Interesting theory, Mike! I’ll have to go back and re-watch that
    episode with an eye towards it. I like that theory better than
    thinking that Boomer turned that nasty.

  142. Pike says:

    Atersolitas, wow, nice breakdown.

    I think Cally can still be a cylon, if Tyrol is human. Nicky could be another (unrealized) Hera.

  143. Audra says:

    Wow, great comments, all, and amazing theories. I’m liking the one about the Oracle being one of the Fab Five.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed D’Anna’s massive cleavage in the white jacket. Although I feel a little silly for being the only female who seems to have spotted it…

    Welcome new commenters! Glad to have you here!

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