December 16, 2006
GWC Podcast #20
It seems like season 3.0 just started, but here we are at the mid-season cliffhanger already. Highlights: Wetryto unravel the mystery of the Eye of Jupiter, love on Adama’s nerves of steel, wonder what’ll come of Anders, discuss Athena’s baby momma drama, and wish this wasn’t the last new BSG we’ll get until January! Note: GWC will continue ‘casting through the break with some very cool guests — check the blog (or listen at the end of this ‘cast) for details.
Galactic Watercooler 
Modern Geek 
Save Eureka 
Eff This Week 
FitSmart
Finally, recognition for my EVIL works!!!
Does what happened to the ground team Raptor in Kobol’s Last Gleaming not count as a crash? I guess you could call it a hard landing but if memory serves, wasn’t the pilot dead and the instrumentation making all sorts of “this is bad” noises?
Great ‘cast as always.
Starbuck’s behavior is interesting. We know that she was physically abused as a child, but I’m getting the impression that she was sexually abused as well. There seems to be a lot of ‘acting out’ going on with her.
No feeling sorry for Dee! She deserves every bit of trauma that Kara can come up with.
Audra’s comment made me realize something. Lee gets all his women by physically fighting with them. I have no idea what that means.
Sean, 28 bars, a sports arena, and a strip club? That’s like three blocks of downtown Baltimore.
Aser, yeah that was about as hard a landing as it gets. Nobody ejected, however.
Well. Great episode, great podcast.. Although personally, I felt it was veering a bit too much into the love.. erm… Trapezoid? Parallelogram? Rhombus?
I am a little surprised, however: None of you mentioned what was the biggest “religious” background that was given:
The Eye of Jupiter is important, yes… But the temple… The temple was named The Temple of Five.
And it was Roslin who revealed that, reading her softback copy of the scriptures. Not the cylons, who would obviously read great importance into that. Not Tyrol, who would probably know the most.
I’m sorry, guys. The theory that the “final five” are members of the 13th colony keeps growing in my mind. And moreso, that the Gods that the humans follow are led
… Oops. Went to click on something, and hit submit. *Facepalm*
The gods that the humans follow are one and the same as the God that the cylon(z) follow.
Indeed.. I think it got cut off, but I SWEAR I heard something in there about the 5 answering to the 1…
(Cylon) Pattern Recognition – Cylons are humans. They talk a good game about the “human pestilence,” but once they took on human bodies, they clearly got the whole beautiful/ugly package called “human nature” as well. They get sick, have emotions like bloodlust and love, enjoy sex, and (most human of all) they have FACTIONS. They fight and disagree.
The main thing, maybe the only thing, which makes the Cylon different from humanity, is that they are fearless of death. Their bodies are utterly human, except for one small part (that doesn’t even show up under the most rigorous medical scans) that allows for a certain amount of programming, the part that makes the downloading phenomena. A Cylon death releases a signal that transfers information and personality to a Resurrection Ship, though they must be fairly close. My theory is that a low-level transmission between individual Cylons shares something distinctive, an RFID, so that “Athena Eight” knows that this is not just any instance of Eight, but the “Boomer Eight” that shot Adama.
The Goo – It must be like the agar in a Petri dish. The beginning of any meat body always involves some warm, viscous fluid, whether inside an egg or a uterus.
Aaron Douglas’ Gut – Audra. “Ouch,” is all I can say.
Adama’s Terms – He is absolutely ready to destroy the Eye. Better to deny it to the Cylons and take a chance that the Colonials will get to Earth first, even if it means being hounded all the way there, than to give it to the enemy and KNOW that they will get there first. However, another 18 people died in the passage to the Algae Planet, and at some point the attrition has to stop.
Baltar’s Mind – I am reminded of something Jamie Bamber said during the roundtable podcast, which is that Baltar is the most seminal, most important human being in the story, and what he does will have more effect on the human race than anyone else, including Adama or Roslyn. For all his megalomania and conniving, treacherous nature, the guy is a genius. He is one of the handful of human beings (e.g. Alan Turing, Nicola Tesla, Einstein) whose intelligence is of such magnitude that it becomes actually strategic. It can affect the course of history.
Anders and Kara – BIG second on Pike’s theory that Kara has abuse in her past. No one is born this self-destructive; you start learning it from a very young age. I’ve seen a lot of relationships like this in my own family, though it is mostly the men who are like Starbuck. It is a machismo thing. I have a bunch of cousins who would say that they are religious, true believers, Christians who tithe and go to church regularly, who at the same time are led around by their dicks and cheat frequently, start side-businesses selling drugs, and hide lots of terrible things they do from the women in their lives, and would NEVER divorce. In turn, these women mostly accept what their men are like. If you have not seen this up close, it is hard to explain. And yes, NO FEELING SORRY FOR DEE, but I feel vindicated that if Billy and Dee had ended up together, the same thing would happen. Billy would be forced into a dilemma: accept that Dee would look for the primal alpha-male quality from other men that he cannot provide, OR divorce her.
Abel, I like your Billy scenario.
Now that I think about it, Dee is once again the Comm Officer, right? So she’s the voice of Galactica to the pilots, including Kara. That could get interesting later.
Great episode! Dean Stockwell is simply the best. His delivery and mannerisms just take the script to a new level. I especially loved the wink he gave the Admiral as they were leaving.
I hate to keep obsessing with Three every week but here it goes. Caprica and the rest didn’t have the best reaction to her sending the heavy raider without involving the rest. I found her ‘need to know’ statement way out of line with the way the Cylon do things. Aside from distancing herself from Caprica and running off with Baltar, I don’t think Caprica and the rest are going to continue to put up with her very non-Cylon behavior.
The Hybrid was defintely looking at Baltar when she was repeating “The Chosen One”. Her head was cocked in that direction and Three had her eyes closed so I think both of them thought she was talking to them. I’ve been pushing Three and her Messiah complex for awhile now but I buy into the fact that Baltar has one too. Never can have enough false prophets running around. 🙂 I do like the theory that the Chief might be the real chosen one (at least in the sense of uncovering the eye) but deciphering hybrid-speak is never a straight forward task.
So now that Helo and Athena know the baby is still alive what do you think the odds are that she’ll get her wish and see the baby? I’m trying to balance the Cylon plan to wipe out Galactica with their possible desire to get Hera well again. I could almost see them inviting them onboard if they believed they could cure her.
Since Audra kept mentioning the symbol on the pillar in the temple I went back to take a closer look at it. One thing I noticed that at least two times, maybe three, when it was shown they immeadiately cut to a space shot where you could see the star shrouded in gas. The symbol itself could be construed as a star or maybe even one going supernova. “And the heavens opened up and they saw the eye” Maybe the supernova itself will be the pointer to Earth and the heavens are the gas cloud around the star.
If you listened to the RDM cast for Unfinished Business when Adma tells Chief to “get your fat lazy ass up here!” Tahmoh Penikett is cracking up saying when he says that he’s talking to Aaron. I got the impression the other actors had been given him some ribbing about putting on some weight lately.
Next time, on Battlestar Galactica:
The Cheif activates the eye, which transmits the location of earth right before Adama nukes the entire planet along with Lee, Dee, Kara, Anders, Cheif, Baltar, and D’anna.
I’d love that to happen because we all know that it won’t.
someone on my galactica lj community pointed out that the “eye” thingy is identical to the paining on kara’s wall back on caprica. im thinking this was NOT an accident.
Okay, okay… I’m adding Lee Adama to my list of “Frakkers from BSG that I want to see take a horseshoe in the forehead.” Did anyone else hear that BS that he tried to feed to Anders while they were fighting?
“I’ve known her a hell of a lot longer than you have.”
What the hell kind of excuse is that for interfering in, and perhaps ruining, their relationship? Sorry Lee, you fail. He’s such a hypocrite! He admires his father for being able to show such responsbility, but he himself has got to be the most incredibly irresponsible person to ever exist. I hope Lee ends up getting Anders shot – so I can hate on his ass for all time.
Speakin’ of Anders…
I’m lovin’ this guy more every time I see him on screen. He’s definitely the most stable of the lot of them. He was totally in the right for taking potshots at Lee during the briefing and such; I mean c’mon, the guy stole his wife. And yet, despite the hatred he has for Lee, he still accepts the mission. What a guy.
I think the real tragedy of Anders is that he just won’t give up on Starbuck. Anybody see how he referred to Starbuck in the episode? He still calls her “my wife.” That poor sap still cares for Starbuck, and looks like it might even get him killed. That would the worst of experiences for Starbuck – “Yeah, my estranged husband who I dumped for *no reason*, was shot by my long-time friend who I cheated on my husband with, who incidentally, is the brother of my dead fiance who I got killed.”
In conclusion. Lee + Kara = relationship from hell. And frak Apollo. Go Anders.
And another thing. Chief’s whole “reawakening” of faith in this episode reminded me *so* much of the term “lapsed catholic.” I mean, he’s never been very religious guy on screen, despite his parents having been a priest and an oracle. Yet, all of sudden an ancient religious artifact resparks some sort of faith in him? I actually find that intriguing. Hope they expand on that idea.
Don’t really have much to say about the Athena-Boomer drama. I think we all knew it was going to happen. The only real question is what’s Athena’s next move. I personally *hope* that they do a scene where Athena considers shooting the Admiral, maybe even gets to a point where she’s holding the gun, and then decides against it – feeling that her oath is too important to violate and her trust in the Admiral is too strong. It would fit in really well with the “Cycle of Time” theme, as well as the concept of individuality.
On Baltar, Caprica-Six and Three. Baltar is *such* an self-centered opportunist. I mean, of course he is, but you’d think an experience like what he went through on New Caprica would change him *for life*. But as usual, once the Big B is out of the danger zone, he’s back to work manipulating people and looking out for number one. I mean, Caprica-Six saved his life! And he snubs her like that? Pffff. Gaeta should’ve put a bullet in his head.
One more thing. Remember when Lee said to Anders, “You would have made a fine officer.” I totally agree. I’ve wanted to see Anders in a Fleet or Marine uniform since day one. If he doesn’t get popped by frakface Lee Adama, I really think the writers should make him an officer. Sadly, though, I don’t think Anders is going to make it.
And that’s my two cubits…
Dan, yeah, a lot of us have been hoping Anders would become a Marine. Especially since that was a plot element that was proposed for Lee but never acted upon. (And hell, the Marines always get the short end of the stick in these ship-based shows. It’s like sailors were writing them…) Downside for Anders is that he just looks too badass for Lee. If the writers were hoping to get him and Lee into it, I think that watching the dailies for this episode squelched that idea. Anders looks like he could break Lee in about half a minute. Right now I’m thinking he gets to “pay the price” for something or other, and thus frees up SB.
Tyrol’s revistation of his religious upbringing is extremely interesting, especially given his youthful rebellion. I suppose it would be more interesting with one of the wackier characters, but it feels more real with the Chief. Could be a very interesting character development move.
Possibility: Anders dies in the process of trying to rescue Starbuck. Starbuck gets all guilty and distances herself from Lee again. Add flashbacks about Zack. Stir.
I still hope Adama blows up the whole site with all of them on it though.
Side note: Did anyone else think “oh my gods, they are plotting to kill him!” when Lee and Starbuck decide to put Anders in charge of the civies?
Dan I would totally have to agree on the Anders thing. Starbuck is his only weakness, but we can’t choose who we love and this poor guy just got into the biggest emotional hornets nest the human race has to offer. I feel for him.
A couple thoughts on this episode that I haven’t read yet (apologies
if someone else brought them up and I missed it).
I’m seeing a lot of diss’ing on Starbuck for her treatment of Dee in
the scene where Dee’s laying out for folks what the plan is. That
didn’t bother me at all, and it seemed a realistic reaction on Starbucks
part for the following reasons. Starbuck is a proved, respected
strategist/tactician and Dee is what? the Comm Officer? Heck, I’d
make little snarky comments too if the comm officier was trying to
tell ME how to do my job. And why is Dee in charge of the plan anyway?
’cause she’s married to the Major?
And on a completely different note. WTF is up with Caprica 6 these days?
The 6’s kick ass and take names! Caprica 6 has gotten all wussy and
vulnerable and wimpy. What’s up with that?
I’m with Lt. Slingshot on this. The supernova escalation will be activated by Tyrrol and reveal the path. But that would mean everyone on the planet bought it.
Wow I just had a “HOLY FRAK!” moment. I was purusing the Scifi board (don’t participate much there, too many crazies. Not at all like the great group here) and someone had found something that looks a lot like the Eye of Jupiter painted by Kara in her apartment back on Caprica. Look at the 4th and 6th posts in the thread for the screenshots. And I thought I was obsessive about detail…
http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?s=1b318da9676633919a44079d7ea778ab&showtopic=2258006
by the way … I was right again, why doesn’t anyone listen to me? Adama had no clue about the baby and that it was still alive. No matter what anyone thinks about Roslin hiding the baby from Athena, when she gave birth to Hera she was just a Cylon, and not Athena Agathon. She made the best decision she could have made at the time. She’s faced with soooooo many decisions that need to be made, that are fracking awful to make. I admire her, and I hope that our own leaders can take a page from her book, and risk popularity and personal scorn to make decisions that aren’t easy, but are right. A phrase I wish they would stop making on B.G. is “the chosen one …” it has become the most annoying thing ever. Okay is there a plan for this show. This week they said the temple was 4000 years ago, and the other night they said it was 2000 years ago … someone on this blog actually pointed out how it was around the time of christianity. I wrote a couple weeks ago that I didn’t get too far into the science of the show because I liked the show, but I think the reason I keep getting surprised is not because the story is so fresh .. it’s becasue they keep changing the story. In all the talk all these seasons of the thirteen tribe they mentioned over and over again how the book they were reading was the only book … and now we have this book of five thing … and they also said the legend of earth was only a myth that few people believed, but now we find out that there were whole religions based on it.
I think what’s cool about tonight’s episode was that D’Anna was actually able to keep a secret from the other cylons … okay and here’s a red herring for you, Caprica Six (baby killer)! I keep remembering her guilt after her part in the holocaust, but that speech she gave … that speech about how much she loved sports and being around people … I’m thinking she’s not very interesting these days, and she’s been betrayed by the cylons at every corner … do you think that there might be two cylon trick horses soon?
Please note … NO BABY BOMB … I hate to rub this in, but Athena was never lied to by Adama and she’s not going to switch teams … she is gonna get her baby back though. Remember that Hera was part of the hybrid’s rant about the eye of jupiter .. and she got sick when they showed up ..
First and foremost, it should be stated that x millenia is a good benchmark for people to forget details. No matter what happens to the human civilization, a span of 100 years is approximately 3 generations of life, traditionally.. Let’s say 2 for the fact that the colonists had to be somewhat advanced. So for 2000 years, that’s 40 generations for people to forget the truth, or for things to become muddied.
I didn’t hear anything about a book of 5. As I said in another comment, all the prophecy we got today (outside of the TEMPLE of 5, as the name of the location) came from the Cylon side of things.
It somewhat makes sense for the age of the temple to be more recent than the actual breaking away of the colonies. After all, they had to take the time to make these road maps… And they could’ve been made either outgoing, or coming back.
The most important thing to keep in mind is this: SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE came back. The history of the 13th tribe, and how they arrived at Earth, is documented for the other 12… Thus, times and dates can be all over the place, depending on when these things are happening.
Hmm. I didn’t catch a reference to a “book of five”, but that term immediately brought to mind the Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible.)
Yeah, so that song at the end of the episode you mentioned was “It Ends Tonight” by the All American Rejects. I do agree that the music choice was a bit off, and personally I felt the same about the choice of the Nickelback song. I haven’t been too terribly pleased about the decision to play pop songs during the trailers of these episodes of BSG. Oh well, there’s your answer guys.
PS. I love the podcast and listen to it every single week, not an episode missed since I found out about you guys. You guys are like the friends I wish I had that I could sit around with and shoot the breeze about the show. Thanks for all of the interesting theories and great casts.
Critical the it ends tonight sucked but i lkied the gutar part with Adams speech
I enjoyed the podcast. I hate to nit pick, but they crashed raptors onto Kobol at the end of Season 1.
Yeah I gotta go with the no pop songs camp on this one. It’s one of those dumb marketing moves that is supposed to draw in young viewers but that I can’t imagine ever works. I almost didn’t go see Gladiator because when they were first advertising it they were using a Kid Rock tune over the action scenes and it made me think that’s what the movie would be like. Stick with Bear McCreary please!
Hey Gang, here’s my theory about Adama and the Nukes…
I think Adama has the Cylons convinced that he’ll nuke the temple. He’ll fire the nukes, and they’ll start flying for the planet, and the Cylons will think, “Aw, crap!”. Then, unbeknownst to all but a few, the nukes change course and target the four Cylon base ships. Then the Cylons say, “double crap!”….boom!
Sweet, huh?
Cheers,
Rem
Nice podcast as usual guys.
So…why is Boomer so angry with the humans? Isn’t this the same cylon who awoke in the tub of goo, screamed, then tried to live in her old apartment on Caprica? When did she change her mind about the love she felt for the Chief, the “memories” of her human family, etc? I don’t get it.
Lucy Lawless is 6 feet tall, by the way.
And, most importantly, who the frak changes Hera’s diapers??? 😉
The red-haired woman who holds a gun on Anders is part of the Galactica pilot crew. The red-haired woman who was part of the New Caprica resistance was in the episode but she wasn’t in the room at the time.
I think Starbuck is full of crap for cheating while calling marriage a sacrament. I totally agree with Chuck’s comments about marriage vs. spirituality. Starbuck is so chaotic on the inside that she seems to need outer structure to cling to, like religion.
a centurion with nipples changes Hera’s diapers???