November 18, 2006

GWC Podcast #16

“Hero” eschewed the main story arc in favor of some serious character development. Highlights: We discuss Adama’s culpability andD’Anna’s dreams, marvel at the can of whoop-a@# Tigh opens up (and his recovery), and shake our heads at the “Baltar sandwich.”

53 Responses to "GWC Podcast #16"
  1. Aser says:

    Great podcast as always folks. I really liked what this episode did to fill out Adama and Tigh’s characters; likewise one of the reasons I really liked Scattered. Now, please forgive me but as you touched on it again, I’d like to comment on Adama and Helo. I think Adama is grateful he didn’t have to go forward and thinks that’s more important. As he’s said in the past, Adama believes as much or more in deserving to survive rather than just surviving. That being said, any bets on what stupid thing Helo will do to lose the cushy job in CIC? I’m guessing it’ll have something to do with the big mid-season two parter, maybe Athena and the baby. That had to be the most devastating punishment one could inflict on Adama; to be celebrated as a hero and looked up to by all of those people he considers family and considers so highly and in need of someone better.

  2. Browncoat Bryan says:

    You know, Aser, I thought the same thing about Adama’s punishment. I thought back to the first season episode, “Litmus”, where Socinus lies to cover for the Chief. Instead of putting Chief in the brig when he admitted to messing with Sharon and possibly leaving the door unlocked, Adama makes Tyrol go back out on the hangar deck and face his men, while Socinus takes the fall for lying at the tribunal.

    When I saw Roslin tell Adama that his punishment would be to receive the distinguished service award, all I could think was, “Oh, that’s FRAKKED UP.” There’s no punishment worse than secret guilt.

    Why do I have the feeling that this season will be the one where every single one of Adama’s lies or coverups will come back to bite him in the tail? I really feel bad for him because he is such an honorable man, and honorable men are the ones who usually seem to have to face the music in painful ways.

  3. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Hi guys just listened to the podcast, great work as always.

    Random thoughts in no particular order

    One of the better examples of keeping the tension at a high level throughout the show. I really enjoyed the way this episode pushed the characters forward and kept the drama moving.

    What is up with Three going all “Flatliners” on us? Once again I stick by my original theory that she thinks she is privy to some spiritual awareness that the rest of them aren’t. I’m not sure the Cylon(z) really have much of a master plan but I’d bet money she does. I wonder if they could they have seen this before? A model that gets hooked on getting killed? None of them looked happy at what she said coming out of the goo. I wonder how they are going to handle her if she keeps trying to assert herself. I don’t see good things for Three. If there is anything I’ve learned, die enough and a little kid in red hooded sweatshirt beats the carp out of you. But seriously Three is getting on an interesting spirituality trip and I can’t wait to see where they take this.

    I think the reason that she had the bullethead take her out goes back to Gina on Pegasus saying that suicide was a sin. Using the bullethead and having him wipe the memory of it was her attempt at finding a loophole in the sin ledger. She was definitely hiding that sin from the other Cylon(z).

    On Laura’s being not being elected… Let’s not forget Colonial Day. It wasn’t a general election but the Quorum of the 12 did back her. That was a legitimate count of the representatives of the Colonies validating her presidency.

    Damn those Cylon(z) are manipulative. Using a virus story to explain Bulldog’s escape when really he was a pawn to take out Adama was a pretty devious plan. Interesting once again that it is a Three torturing him. I know I sound like a broken record but that model has a plan. Even though I have a lot of faith in Athena this kind of Machiavellian stuff makes me uneasy. If they can play a human like that what would they do to her head? Then again i guess that’s probably what the writers want me thinking. More questions than answers…

    I’m glad Kara was removed enough from it all to be objective. Also glad to see Tigh thinking clearly enough to see the validity of what Kara saw. After all that darkness and acrimony he’s finally on the road to healing and climbing out of his black hole

    Dug bulldog overall. Good performance from a good actor. I hope he wasn’t a one show wonder.

    Funny thing I just checked the OnDemand replay of the show and they didn’t censor BS when Adama said “I thought they beat the — attitude out of you?” I really wonder how timeslots affect what can and can’t be said on screen. I recently started watching Rescue Me and that might as well be on HBO. That’s a later timeslot but it does make me wonder if the Standards and Practices crew at SciFi are more paranoid than those at FX. I’d love to really know how these things are determined but sounds like RDM doesn’t even know till he meets with them

    Yeah the threesome blew me away. Guess there are perks to telling Three you love her. She had been playing almost a Six like role with him for a few eps though. Giving him the pills with the wrist caress, the white Marilyn Monroe dress, during the torture she’s telling him it hurts her to do this to him and so on. At the same time she was very dismissive of Baltar when his importance was mentioned. Kinda weird since she had her big epiphany with him.

    Great comments from you all.

    Slingshot out

  4. Aram says:

    You know, I am not convinced that Baltar did have a threesome. That could have been Head Six laying next to him. The guilty look on Xena’s face was due to sleeping with Baltar; she couldn’t see her lying next to him.

  5. Richard F. says:

    The Threesome:

    I agree the Aram

    I was Head Six. Here’s my evidence.

    1) In the first shot of the bed, I only saw 2 bodies. I haven’t gone back on the Tivo, but I’m 99% certain, that we didn’t see Six until Three sat up.

    2) The Head Six musical theme started in the very first clear shot of Baltar (the moment 3 sat up.

    3) Most importantly, in the last episode we saw that Baltar was “getting off” while being tortured b/c of Head Six, not actually any physical pleasure he was experiencing in the real world. That coupled with Baltar’s last lines to 3 in the last show about (and I’m paraphrasing here) “I’ll do anything for you,” probably made 3 want to frak Baltar solo.

    Though titilating a threesome may be, it is more telling that Baltar felt threaten/trapped/stressed enough while frakking 3 that he had to think “project” Head Six.

    Just my thoughts,


  6. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Been thinking more about the discussions on the Cylon God from the podcast and my Three messiah theories and I’m taking it one step further. She seems to believe that her various dreams are signs from God. She is playing around in the space between life and death where she finds something wonderful and glowing. God anyone? It makes me ask the question, is she coming to believe that she is God’s messenger? Maybe even the physical embodiment of the Cylon God? What would happen if she declares this to the other Cylon(z)?

    Cylons have appeared to be a consensus based beings with no central leader. How would they react to a single model let alone an individual Cylon trying to become the leader? Even when Caprica Six and Boomer convinced the others to go to New Caprica it was voted on by the other models. As she resurrects another Three is there and she certainly didn’t appear to approve of the idea that there was something beautiful and miraculous between life and death. At that moment everyone pulls away from her. When I think about how they have referred to their understanding of God it has been in an abstract faith based way, not direct communication. Personally I can’t see the Cylon(z) embracing this kind of individuality and may even find it blasphemous. I think back to Three talking about boxing Boomer back on Caprica because she wouldn’t give up her individuality and get in line with the other Cylon(z). Could the same thing be waiting for a blasphemous Three? Yeah I admit I’m making some wild leaps here. 🙂

  7. Lt. Slingshot says:

    One last thought on Three. Her dreams made me think of a song from the movie Donnie Darko called ‘Mad World’ one verse goes

    And I find it kind of funny
    I find it kind of sad
    The dreams in which I’m dying
    Are the best I’ve ever had

  8. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Ok last post on Three today but I was going back and reviewing the sequence after she gets popped by the bullethead and noticed something that startled me. You have the 6 white panels illuminated on the “stage” and in between are 5 glowing figures!!! Could this be our missing 5 Cylon(z)??? First rule of Cylon Fight Club is we don’t talk about the other 5. I keep speculating about things that could get Three in trouble with the rest and this might just be one more thing.

  9. Richard F. says:


    After Tigh put the beat down on Bulldog, why did Tigh put Adama’s gun in an unconscious Adama’s hand?

    That sounds like something someone would do to (1) frame someone for murder/assault, or (2) to allow a weaker combatant the ability to kill their oppontent.

  10. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Hey Richard. Adama was conscious when Tigh gave him the gun. He asked him if he was okay, removed the belt to free Adama’s hands, then gave him the gun. I saw it as making sure somebody had his back as he was kneeling down to talk to Bulldog.

  11. Granger says:

    Great podcast as usual – thanks for the effort the three of you put into this.

    I’ll add that this episode not only gave greater meaning to Adama’s decommissioning speech in the miniseries, it also helps explain why he was willing to go to such unreasonable lengths in You Can’t Go Home Again to recover Kara Thrace when she disappeared. He had left Bulldog behind and wouldn’t ever make that mistake again. OK, perhaps he presumed Bulldog was dead. But note that in his initial lies to Rosalin he claimed that the Dradis showed no ejection – so perhaps the Dradis did in fact show the ejection and thus Adama suspected all along Bulldog might have survived the missile shot.

    As for the upcoming boxing episode, I think Tigh would make a great ringside coach for Adama, ala Burgess Meredith. Tigh acts old and creaky these days, but when it matters we know he certainly has the moves. My suggestion for the usual B story for that episode would be Cylon SmackDown! with Leoben and Doral tag-teaming against Simon and Brother Cavil. The lovely ladies would of course be the wrestling bimbos. And they really could have a wrestling deathmatch, so long as the Resurrection Ship was nearby.

  12. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Granger LOL I’ll take that over ECW anyday!

  13. Beemer Dan says:

    Great to see that the podcast is ready to roll so soon! I’m downloading it right now so forgive me if you’ve already covered some of this. Hero was a great episode and I’d really like to see them do more to cover what was really behind the events that led up to the Cylon attack. Also, with the seed now planted for the top brass knowing about things going on, rogue colony activity and “covert military ops” it leaves us with a lot more possible surprises for what lies ahead. Given an advanced civilization with interstellar travel, you never know who will show up and when. Who can say that all of the 13th colony went to Earth, or how large they were in number. There is still so much they can do with this show.

    Oh, and Tigh’s eye-patch, was that made from Ellen’s slip?

    BTW, thanks so much for the fantastic podcast! You three have the best BSG podcast hands down, and out of ALL of the podcasts I listen to this is my favorite. Not just because it is intelligent, intellectual, fun and witty, but also because you don’t make us sit through 3 minute intros, crazy volume adjustments, constant background music/noise and annoying advertisements. You’ve got a model show, don’t change a thing!

  14. Pike says:

    (covering my eyes, ’cause I haven’t had a chance to listen yet…)

    Just wanted to point this out to y’all:

  15. The 13th Cylon says:

    One thing that did confuse me was the whole Valkyrie thing. I thought Adama was with Galactica for a long time before the attacks. “Ronald D Moore, you’ve got some splainin’ to do!” And my jaw dropped open once we found out that he and others were aware of the Cylons being out there. That changes things a bit.

  16. Arktis says:

    I thought this was a rather sub-par episode overall. One thing I have noticed about your podcasts (I’ve listened to the last 4 only, mind you) is that you don’t really offer up anything in the way of genuine criticism.

    Here’s a couple of things that really stuck out:

    1.) The Shaky camera thing was way overdone. There wasn’t a whole lot of action in this episode, yet that camera was just constantly flying all over the place. This is pretty normal for Galactica overall and it just gets on my nerves when there’s nothing really going on but the cameraman/woman is still having seizures.

    2.) “The new guy” is a piss-poor actor. The only thing he’s good at is doing pushups and acting stupid crazy. He’s got this dumb bulgy-eyed look on his face half the time.

    3.) I didn’t like how neat and tidy the conclusion was. I would have like to see some real conflict and lasting reprocussions. Instead we’re just supposed to nod our heads and feel bad for Adama because we know he feels guilty. Boo-hoo.

    Even if you disgree with these points, I hope that in the future you can bring yourselves to be more critical rather than just trying to feel the “zen of awesomeness”. Being a fan is more than just praising something.

  17. Cavatar says:

    Am I the only one who thinks the Battlestar Valkyrie is lacking all style in its look? At least the Pegasus was cool looking.

    As for the quarter bet on the Starbuck vs. Apollo fight…I will take that bet. I think Lee is pissed at Kara and he is going to kick her butt. This leads in to this; I bet we have more flashbacks coming. They are likely going to show what happened between them in the “one year later” section from Lay Down Your Burdens. This has me a bit angered, because then we will likely have a flashback were Lee is a Commander which will only remind me that he was demoted and I am still scarred from that.

    I will go on the record and say that it was a threesome with Three, Six, and Baltar. It ties in with the comments that Head Six got Baltar to say to end his torture, and the look that Three when she heard them.

    Tigh looks to be back, and that is all well and good. But I wished it would have been much longer of a time period. I know that if you really look at it, you can say that months may have past; given Lee had all this time to lose weight and so forth. However I still think seeing four or more episodes with the rift between them would have been cool.

    Also did you notice that Starbuck went to Tigh, they apparently are still close.

    Also, did anyone think it was strange that Bulldog was on a first name basis with a Colonial and Admiral (He was a Commander when Bulldog last knew him) when was only a Lieutenant. Should he not have been a Major or something then perhaps, it just seemed less Military and more “lovie dovie” which isn’t the military way.


  18. john patrick says:

    Full disclosure: I am a Cylon.

    Now that we have that out of the way, Richard F, I’m pretty sure that what we saw was the aftermath of three way sex. Chip Six is a function of Baltar’s conscious mind, and clearly, Baltar was asleep.

    But if we do take Richard F’s three reasons seriously, then we should also consider that Three might have actually been sleeping with Six, and that the Baltar we were seeing was Chip Baltar.

    Now, as for the easy ending that Arktis hates so much, I had to give a similar speech to someone just this week. No, you are not going to quit because you feel bad about yourself, you are going to suck it up and do your job because people are counting on you, and they don’t give a shit about your internal personal drama. So get over yourself and do the job we hired you for.

    Now, I do like space whoop-ass as much as the next guy, but I definitely appreciate these dialog-heavy episodes as well, especially the more I think about them. The moral dilemmas present and the examination of the theme of forgiveness and redemption are really rich. So far this season, every character (except Dualla, maybe Helo) has hit bottom and then been redeemed themselves. Still, I must say that I miss the post-whoop-ass euphoria associated with Exodus 2.

    Finally, Three seems to be spiritually starving. She’s gonna keep exploring the afterlife, get into trouble with the others, because her quest for fulfillment will distract her and others from killing humans. Eventually, she’ll ask to delay or even forgo resurrection. She uses the toaster to dispatch herself because a) suicide is a sin, and b) the toasters are the only ones with weapons on the base star.

    It’s interesting to me that the hot lady cylons have all this character development, but the dude cylons (like me) seem pretty stable and self-confident.

  19. Dan, the Lord of Kobol says:

    Another great podcast guys!

    I don’t know about you three, but Hero was definitely not a letdown for me. I’ve let the failure of AMOS slide mostly on the hopes that Hero would vindicate it, and BSG didn’t fail me.

    First, I just wanted to bring up a a fun little idea for everyone to think about. What really have we heard about the Adar administration so far? It’s not a very bright picture, think of this…

    In “Water”, Roslin says somewhat regretfully that when Adar sent the Marines to Aerolon, fifteen people died. In the latest episode, Hero, Adama tells Roslin that apparently the Admiralty was displeased with the Adar administration’s handling of the Cylon situation – so much so that they feel the need for an unauthorized black-ops mission in Cylon territory. In Home part 2, Adama *openly* refers to Adar as a moron. And in Epiphanies, Adar was willing to send the marines to end a civilian teacher’s strike.

    I’m getting the feeling that: a) This was not a very popular President. b) He wasn’t a very good one. Any thoughts?

    Now back to the episode and podcat…

    I already talked about this in another post, but I’m going to restate my stance. I totally agree with Chuck on how realistic Tigh was in Hero. He was in denial and hurting, and was forced to deal with that hurt in some degree. I didn’t much like how Tigh betrayed Adama by telling Bulldog the full story, knowing full well that Adama hadn’t told Bulldog yet. But therein lies the realism I suppose: Saul’s hurting, and he hastily made a bad choice because of that pain. Chuck, you were so right – Tigh was awesome in this episode.

    On the Baltar sandwich. I’m certain that D’anna was there to imply a three-way. Look at the evidence: She was naked in the bed with them and Six specifically asked her, on what was bothering her: “Is it something about Gaius?” which is a blatant sexual innuendo. I think they did it. Whether or not it was good for her is another story – probably not a very flattering one for Gaius, given that D’anna put a bullet in her own head the morning after. Ha!

    Oh, and I saw those t-shirts Audra was talking about. There was this really funny one that said “Roslin-Adama ’08”. I’d vote for them.

    And that’s my two cubits…

  20. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Thanks for the clip Manicorn. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about Lee and the flashbacks (think Kobol’s Last Gleaminig, Pt 1) is that he usually gets his ass kicked. However, I wish that he’d put the serious beatdown on Helo.

    I used to like Helo. I used to like how he took a stand for the minority (considering the fact that I’m a minority). Even though his action was wrong, that’s not really what is pissing me off. I’m still ticked because there’s no repercussions against Helo. He’s still in CIC. I really despise that. His action, his stance, meant absolutely nothing. At least suffer in the brig for 30-90 days.

    Maybe something will come up in BSG Fight Club. I’m hoping someone will kick Helo’s tail.

    Now, on to Three/D’Anna…. I think she’s gonna be the one who’s boxed. I believe what’s happening to her is the beginnings of a serious Messiah complex…. Inevitably, this messiah will be taken down. Perhaps we’ll have something similar to a Jonestown on a basestar (“Here, Doral, drink this Fanta.”) Seriously, do you all think she might lead a revolt or insurrection which will cause some kind of civil war? How will Baltar figure in all of this. I noticed in “Hero” that Baltar didn’t play any real role. He was a plot device. Put naked Baltar in bed to show a threesome with Six. Put suit wearing Baltar (which is an interesting choice of clothes) in the control room in the corner as the initial object of conversation between Three and Six.

    Perhaps we’re being set up for a conflict between Three and Six. I have to admit that I found it odd that Baltar was wearing his normal “New Caprica” clothes instead of the Arthur Dent bathrobe. Have we gotten to the point, at least for a while, where Baltar serves as nothing more than a set of eyes in the basestar?

    Oh, to answer the question about the Opera House. I believe it was the same one that Baltar and Six were in. Not only was there the same lighting, but the same soundtrack music was playing. Perhaps this is the Cylon God’s Opera House of Revelation.

    Either way, I think this episode ranks as number two for all time favorite episodes, thus far. And that’s saying a lot because I loved Pegasus and Resurrection Ship 1&2.

  21. john patrick says:

    Oh, by the way….

    “I could use a drink,” Tigh’s signal to Adama that he’s ready to talk in “Hero.”

    “I could use a drink.” Ellen Tigh’s last words.

    I just wanted to point that out.

    ps. I am a Cylon.

  22. Eyeless says:

    Ok, about the room Number Three appears in momentarily immediately after having a Centurion shoot her:

    RIGHT when the bullet hits her, the piece by our beloved BSG composer Bear McCreary named “Passacaglia” starts playing. (My absolute favorite piece from the soundtracks.) It doesn’t last long, but it definitely plays for a few seconds. Anyway, in Kobol’s Last Gleaming, Passacaglia is played during the open 5 minutes. Then, a sort of remixed, more final-sounding version called “The Shape of Things to Come” plays at the end, climaxing when Baltar is shown the baby. The room is a weird sort of ruined opera house.

    Anyway, in response to Chuck’s vague thought that Number Three’s death room was similiar, it is the same. The music drove that home for me. =D

  23. Tainted Bill says:

    Regarding Adama causing the attack: I don’t think this mission had a thing to do with the attack, since this was three years ago (1 year before the attach), and there was a line in the miniseries about Six and Baltar being together for two years.

    So, in essence, the Admiralty was right. The Cylons were planning something, and the Valkyrie’s mission was justified.

  24. Pike says:

    Finally got to sit down and listen to the ‘cast. I like that you do the podcasts right after seeing the episode, and especially before listening to RDM’s. It’s interesting that a lot of times you mention something and RDM has already thought of it (and usually says something like “it’s a valid criticism.”)

    Audra, the spine glow does move. It’s more subtle than the centurions’ eye–more like the room’s glow.

    Didn’t downloading hurt now? Did they drop that?

    Totally with Chuck on the practical reason for wiping the Centurion. Totally not with him on the Baltar sandwich explaination. Great theory, but they wouldn’t let it go unstated. If you see three naked people in bed, and they don’t qualify it, they had sex. (BTW, what is a “maysure”?)

    Roslin is a coup appointee. Think about it, Baltar effectively abdicated. Zarek was the acting president. Then Adama said, “No, you won’t do.” So, he hands over the presidency under the effective orders of the military. If that ain’t a coup, what is?

    I was suprised at how many BSG themed shirts are on Cafepress. My fave is, “I do what my evil invisible robot girlfriend tells me to.”

    Slingshot, “Mad World” is by Tears for Fears (great band) and you probably thought of it b/c it’s also used in a commercial that ran during the episode, although I don’t remember if that verse was in the commercial. It was the third commercial after Act 2, if you TiVoed it. (I knew that my insane liveblogging of commercials would come in handy.)

  25. Chad Engleman says:

    Has there been a discussion about the possibilty of the 2 cylons that baltar is sleeping with becoming pregnant? It seems like sharron got knocked up pretty fast! any thoughts?

  26. NY Spinny says:

    Obligatory nit-picks:

    1. Kara managed to figure out a brain-dead raider’s controls enough to fly it in realspace, but jumping it only happened after a lot of reverse engineering. How did Bulldog get into a (presumably) still-alive one, figure it out, and manage a jump all while being pursued (even if the pursuit was fake)?

    2. Given the ability to jump the raider, how did Bulldog know where to jump? Even if the Cylon(z) knew where the RTFF was, how would that information make it to Bulldog? And, if they knew where the fleet was, why not just jump in a bunch of base stars and attack?

    3. How would the Cylon(z) know a year in advance that Bulldog would be a useful tool against the one Battlestar commander who just happened to survive and become a thorn in their side? For that matter, how would they know anything about how the commander of the Battlestar that released the recce ship might be related to their current nemesis? I just don’t buy into any of the motivation for “training up” Bulldog and releasing him, other practical issues aside.

    I found it very telling that Kara went to Tigh with her findings. She might be back in the saddle but she’s got a lot of baggage still sitting in her lap. She seemed in charge of the 2-ship with Kat that went after the raiders. Was I reading too much into that brief exchange?

    Tigh has an eye patch! Symbolic with coming to some sort of permanent terms with his grief and trauma? I’d still prefer a nice, black one to wear along with a peg leg and a parrot on his shoulder!

    Good episode; not the best but quite good IMNSDHO. It totally brought the Roslin love, and that’s always good by me.

  27. NY Spinny says:

    Oh, forgot to mention: we don’t know what else D’anna told the Centurion to do. The rest of the command might very well have been to sneak her body out an airlock or something, then do the mind wipe to erase the tracks. That still doesn’t answer the inevitable question of how did she die so as to be downloaded, though.

  28. Nick says:

    I found Audra’s comments in the podcast about the cylon god being the one “Fallen angel” among the original lords of Kobol and therefore Satan very interesting. I think it would definately fit into what has been laid out so far. One of the things that had always struck me as very odd was back Baltar had crash landed on Kobol and was talking to head six, she had responded in a very angry, bitter manner that (I forget the exact wording) something along the lines of Nothing good every happened on Kobol and you would be forever cursed because of it. Also.. the prophecy of Pithia refers to Athena as a “Lesser Demon”

    Also..on the upcomming Lee v Starbuck grudgematch: Recall at the end of last season when Starbuck calls Lee for some medicine, Duala hands Lee the phone saying in a fairly bitchy tone “Oh.. it’s HER. What does SHE want?” I have a feeling we are going to find out exactly what that triangle was all about.

  29. Lt. Slingshot says:

    Pike, you are right about the commercial. I’m usually running to the kitchen or elsewhere during those but it must have been bouncing around somewhere in my brain. I don’t think that verse was in it but that probably set me off towards remembering Donnie Darko. Nice call.

  30. Pike says:

    Nick, if you don’t mind some very minor spoilers, see the youtube link above (not mine, the other one (although mine’s worth checking out too, IMHO.)) I’m not so sure that Starbuck and Apollo actually square off at this point.

    Slingshot, TfF was one of my favorite bands, so that commercial really got my attention.

  31. Nick says:

    It just strikes me looking back on things it is Athena that leads everybody to Athena’s temple on Kobol. Not particularly significant but it did make me go hmmmm..

    We’ve got the Arrow of Apolo, Temple of Athena.. they don’t by chance have a Starbuck goddes lurking around somewhere?

  32. Abel Vargas says:

    Funny note – My spell-check software keeps changing ‘Cylons’ to ‘Colons’.

    The B*llsh*t Censoring – I get my BSG on the iTunes store (I don’t like TV enough to buy cable). Cons: I have to wait about a day after the cable airing. Pros: I got to hear Adama say “bullshit attitude.”

    Roslin’s outfit in scene one: Mary McDonnell, please undo one more button, you sexy President.

    Cavatar’s comment – I don’t think Bulldog is in the military anymore. He served faithfully, and whatever he owed was paid off once he spent 3 years as a POW in enemy hands. Adama and Tigh are former coworkers, not his superior officers. He leaves to pursue a new life in the fleet as a civilian. I defy anyone on Galactica to tell him that he’s still a pilot, that he should put on his flight suit, jump in a Viper, and take the next patrol.

    Adama’s guilt – I second john patrick that this is a rough thing for Adama to swallow. Anyone who’s fought in as many wars as Adama, who holds his character to the standards that he does, would have his pride and honor terribly wounded by this guilt.

    The threesome – I don’t see a problem. A threesome is unwise if you are a couple bringing in a third person, but there is nothing immoral or misogynistic (or misandric) about the simple act of three people having sex. Cylons don’t have body issues like we do, probably because a) they don’t have a wide variety in their physical types and b) you can’t keep any part of your life private from the huge cohort of your race that shares the same model as you. Every second of the enthusiastic, playful, energetic, athletic sex that Six and Baltar shared on Caprica before the Cylon attack has been spread by downloading to every Six, and by conversations, friendships, and chitchat to many other Cylons of different models. Ever since Baltar came on board, Three has treated him like a plaything and an inferior; at best he’s a necessary evil to her. Her come-ons in earlier episodes are *tactics*; a cat playing with a mouse. If there was threesome sex, it was just Three fulfilling her curiosity, and Baltar fulfilling his bottomless ego.

    Three’s dreams – This is “New Caprica” Three, the one who first held and has fallen in love with baby Hera. Cylons don’t have babies, and they are not used to that peculiar charisma that all babies have. I am guessing that her new religious conviction has a lot to do with her emotional state.

  33. Lt. Slingshot says:

    I can’t claim to have found this on my own but I thought it was interesting choice by the writers to name Adama’s old battlestar the Valkyrie considering what happened to Bulldog.

    In Norse mythology the valkyries are dísir, minor female deities, who served Odin. The valkyries’ purpose was to choose the most heroic of those who had died in battle. Literally the term means choosers of the slain.

  34. The 13th Cylon says:

    Yay for all the Tigh love in this episode. Baltar used to be my favorite character, but Tigh has officially dethroned him. Baltar only worries about what others think, whereas Tigh couldn’t give a damn either way. As he so eloquently put it a few weeks back: “Which side are we on… we’re on the side of the demons, Chief. We’re evil men in the gardens of paradise sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I’m surprised you didn’t know that.” lmao! Long live Tigh. And so true about the boxing, he doesn’t need to box because he is Tigh and that’s enough.

  35. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Tigh is the man. I crack up whenever he does his evil Santa laugh and then lays out a zinger. “Oh, ho, ho, ho… You’re worried about what will happen when the truth comes out [or something to that effect].”

  36. Pike says:

    Wow, Bryan. I’m picturing Tigh playing Santa at the ship’s Christmas party, getting drunk, and taking a swing at Starbuck (I miss the old days.)

  37. Audra says:

    Just want to say thanks for all the great, thoughtful, funny comments. You guys keep us thinking, on our toes, and ginning up new ideas for upcoming ‘casts. Thanks from all of us!


  38. eric-michael says:

    I’m not sure if this was mentioned before, but wtfrack was up with Kara and Tigh’s relationship? I’m not sure when they became such fast friends … As for the Cylon God … religion on this planet evolved from the worshipping many gods to just one. I’m not sure how much this has to do with the fact that the cylons are in search of earth, AND we’re not quite sure what time period that this show takes place as it relates to us. If Tigh becomes the XO again what happens to Helo? Is it the same thing that happened to Kat when Apollo came back? (which is I don’t know status). Okay another thing that is always sort of glossed over on this show is that unless you lived on the Astro Queen, how bad must life suck in the fleet? I mean isn’t this RTF just that? A group of vessels that were on route to somewhere … things like tankers and commerical jets? AND … what happened to the people who stayed on New Caprica? I mean they didn’t all get off the planet (Adama said that to Apollo) … how bad must their lives suck? Lets face it, unless you live on Col-One or the Galactia things are rather gloomy for the survivors of the 12 colonies …

  39. A. Lo says:

    Eric-Michael –

    Regarding Tigh & Kara – in Lay Down Your Burdens Pt. 2, when Tigh finally leaves the Galactica and makes it down to New Caprica, Kara gives him a hug. I guess they buried the hatchet or were already starting to at that point. And I think both of them had very different but very hellish experiences during the occupation and that further bonded them. I have to say I kind of like the evolution of their relationship.

  40. NY Spinny says:

    You know…what if the Baltar Sandwich wasn’t real? Suppose that was D’anna’s bedchamber we saw, not Baltar’s, and that in her descent into weirdness she’s acquired both a HeadSix and a HeadBaltar? Wouldn’t that just be frakked up?

  41. eric-michael says:

    I realize they hugged when they saw each other on N.C., which further begs the question, what happened during that missing year (besides the chief having a baby, and roslin’s testicles descending) I think I’m more interested in knowing what happened during htat missing year than I am learning about the cylons. Am I the only person watching the show who has considered the possibility that Athena might be fracking with everyone? I mean she is programmed after all. If you watch the show with the idea that she might be, things look a lot different. The whole thing with Helo and killing the cylons … everything … and ponder me this, batman, if love is all it takes for a cylon and a human to procreate, then why hasn’t helo and Athena had another child? Looks like they’re fracking up a storm … I think we learned this week why Adama might be prone to believe everything she says, with him believing he may have started hostilities between the cylons and humans, and wanting to make a mends …

  42. Pike says:

    Spinny, I don’t think that’s where they’re going, but I love the idea. You could have a great scene with Caprica Six, New Caprica Three, and Baltar all dealing with each other AND their various head-sixes and Baltars.

    e-m, sometime in the near future, we should see some flashback scenes that were filmed when they filmed New Caprica. Those should explain Kara and Tigh’s reconcilliation as well as Kara and Apollo’s (what is it? Distancing?)

  43. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Hey, Eric-Michael… I think some of your N.C. questions will be answered in the next episode (which is a week and a half from now). As for Athena… I don’t know, man. Maybe I’ve been sucked into thinking that she’s become a real person (besides, what’s the definition of “person”) and lost a little objectivity. However, she had plenty of opportunities to betray the RTF, especially on New Caprica. Yet, she has always been loyal to the fleet, even after her baby was taken from her, even with the trumped up discussion about genocide, she was willing to allow Roslin/Adama to go through with the virus plan and even gave Helo some crap for not wanting to follow orders. Also, when Athena was on the basestar, the sick Cylons called her “traitor”. I just find it hard to believe that all of this is an act. BUT, when she finds out that Roslin lied about her baby….

    Pike, you got me thinking about Tigh as Santa. Can you picture him being Santa from “A Christmas Story”? “Oh, ho, ho, ho… You’ll shoot your eye out, kid. Just like I did with mine.” And then he puts his boot in the kid’s face.

  44. NY Spinny says:

    Yeah, Pike, that was where I was going with that idea. What an amazing bit of comic genius they could pen, even in the midst of some tense, er, three-way scene, if you’ll pardon the term. Callis would own the scenery, but I suspect the ladies could hang with him for some evil back-and-forth fun.

  45. Pike says:

    Spinny, I’m with you about Callis. He does the comedic take so well that the writers have catered to that (RDM mentioned that they have to be careful not to run with it.) But he’s a well rounded actor and I can’t wait to see more of “badass head-Baltar” (and we’re supposed to this season.)

    And I’d love to see Lucy trying to deal with a head-six and head-Baltar. Being double-teamed (er, sorry) she’d have a much harder time of it (why does everything I type seem dirty now?)

  46. eric-michael says:

    Bryan, trust me I too believe in Athena (mostly cause I think she’s a little hottie), but recently I’ve been watching this, and she says things that just get me to thinking … a lot of what she says could have double meanings … when she says “the man at the top needs to find a way to forgive himself,” there is no doubt (because I believe they had that scene in the previously on part) she was talking about this episode (hero) … and her advice directly affected the actions of Adama. And on the planet, is she some kind of military genius or did can she sense the Cylon’s presence? And when she says she has to prove herself everyday. What does she mean by “has” to prove herself? I would love to believe that she’s a good guy, but Cylons are masters at lying, and there were Cylons roaming around the fleet for years and years, AND leave us not forget that there are something like six Cylons in the fleet according to Boomer (I only know of one they discovered after that) She hasn’t given any of them up. We know she has programming that she can’t go against. She didn’t give up Brother Caulville so obviously she can’t betray the Cylon in that way. We learned from Six and Boomer that killing themselves is not an option. I’m just saying that if I were writing this, she’d be the perfect double agent … And here’s another question: if you believe that Athena was referring to this episode when she said “the man at the top must forgive himself,” you have to ask yourself the question how the frack did she know? How the frack did she know about the speech Adama gave when she wasn’t present? Soooooo many questions … I love this show!

  47. Lt. Slingshot says:


  48. Browncoat Bryan says:

    Dang, Eric-Michael, good point!!! I completely forgot about her refusal to give up the other Cylon agents. Considering that she’s now a Colonial officer, that should be her first priority. Especially since she was willing to back the order to use the virus against the resurrection ship.

    Wouldn’t that be a massive mind-frak if RDM has been playing us and intentionally got us on her side emotionally, just to rip the rug from under us and reveal that she actually is a Cylon agent? How about this…. Suppose she was supposed to be a double agent, but went against her mandate because of her love of the fleet and Helo. Let’s say that the Cylons have told her that all humans are liars and are evil, but because of her experiences with the fleet, she changes her mind and decides to aid them (which is where we are right now). Now, she finds out that her baby is still alive and that the folks in charge lied to her. At this point, everything that the Cylons have told her has come true and she goes back into double-agent mode.

    Either way, I wouldn’t trust her the second she finds out that her baby is still alive. But, here’s the messed up part. I couldn’t kill her either, because if I do, she is downloaded onto a resurrection ship and then the Cylons will know everything she has experienced on Galactica. As a matter of fact, even at this point, I would never send her on a dangerous mission because of that risk.

    As for the hottie factor, she used to be number one in my book until Kat came along. Okay, I know that she has a comeuppance coming, and it’s well deserved, but she’s still looks fine….

  49. Pike says:

    Hey, Sharon/Eight/Athena still has the freakiness factor going for her..

    As for not giving up the other cylon(z), she literally can’t at this point. All seven of the basic cylons have been ID’ed. Theres’ the “Final Five”, but apparently they (the Seven) can’t even think about them beyond the fact that they know that the exist.

    It is a bit odd that the numbers don’t correspond to the disposition of the final five. If they were first, they’d have a number three. If they were a later development, they’d have a number eight. Neither is the case, apparently.

  50. eric-michael says:

    think about this … how the frack did bulldog know where to find the fleet if “someone” wasn’t in contact with the cylons … someone with access to the fleet’s location … which would have to be someone on the galactia … I’m telling you if you just consider Athena’s a double agent, the plot holes make more sense

  51. Pike says:

    e-m, I could buy that only if it was an inadvertent thing. Like there was some IFF-equvalent installed in each model.

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