Karl wrote:
I haven’t started the re-watch and to be truthful have not done any re-watches yet. Saying that, I can not think of a single time one of the Cylons intentionally lied to a human. That’s not to say they have not misled anyone, but I can not remember any actual untruth in the scripting of the Cylons. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it might add something as you go through the re-watch of the seasons.
Regarding Cylons’ truthfulness, I think the scene that is most in question is Leoben telling Roslin that “Adama’s a Cylon.” I think it was Sean who pointed out that Cylons may not outright lie, but say things that are what people need to hear at the moment (or what will further their own agenda). Personally, I think that either Leoben was lying in that case – or we’ll find out something like, say, humans and Cylons share common heritage and thus all humans are Cylons, or some other technicality.
And what about this? Check out the following excerpts of dialogue between Simon and Starbuck in ”The Farm”:
Starbuck: Who brought me in?
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Simon: A big Guy called Anders. Used to be a pro pyramid player if you can believe that.Starbuck: Yeah, I know him. Where is he?
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Simon: He died….on the table. I thought he was oÂnly slightly wounded. Turns out that a piece of shrapnel had nicked his aorta. Massive internal bleeding. I’m sorry. We did everything we could do.(new excerpt)
Starbuck: Are you a Cylon?
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Simon: What do you think?Starbuck: I think you didn’t answer the question.
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Simon: I am most definitely not a Cylon. Of course I don’t know what you would expect me to say. If I was a Cylon I certainly wouldn’t admit it.
So, there’s a chance Simon wasn’t lying about Anders, if we assume that Anders is a resurrectable Cylon and resurrected instead of died on Caprica. But denying he’s a Cylon is definitely a lie. (Remember Aaron Doral in the miniseries – “I’m not a frakkin’ Cylon!”)
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Hmm.
That got me thinking of Cavil. I’ll have to check the dialog, but when he told Tyrol that he (the Chief) wasn’t a Cylon it was along the lines of “I haven’t seen you at any of the meetings.” Was he avoiding the question? Do the Cavils know who the final five are? Remember he didn’t seem that interested when D’anna said she saw them. Is it because he already knows?
Of course, Galactica Cavil denied he was a Cylon himself, right up until he was confronted with his (brother? what is the relationship between models, exactly?)
Was Doral a sleeper at that point? Maybe when he said I am not a frakkin cylon he believed he was not a frakkin cylon but then maybe after he was left and when the cylons came to get him the signal/switch was flipped.
As has been said before,”…What was told was true, from a certain point of view.”. It could be said that white lies are okay in the Cylon Eyes ( or Eye?) but My guess is that a Cylon will tell an Untruth to further It’s own agenda just like a Human ( the whole “they-are-a-bit-more-like-us-than-we-like-to-admit” thang).
God I love this Forum, gets the BSG jones out of the way.
On this thread about the Lie-lons,
I think Six set the tone for the Cylons as liars from the beginning.
I mean, she told Gaius she worked for a defense contractor for 2 years or something. Ok, we didn’t hear her originally say this on screen, and ok I suppose you could say she might have really worked for one…but at the end of the day she and all other infiltrators showed us the Cylons use deception and trickery.
Yep, she’s a Lie-lon
Where did this idea that Cylons don’t lie come from?
I’d say Six wouldn’t have been able to use Baltar in the beginning without telling a few direct lies from time to time. When Athena first met Helo on Cylon-occupied Caprica, she lied to him about the Humanoid Cylons (if my memory serves…)
I’m feeling lazy right now so I don’t really have the initiative to find direct quotes to support my post, but I’m pretty sure the Cylons lie all the time.
Cylons never lie just like Vulcans never lie.
I bet this will be some “what I told you was true from a certain point of view” type thing if it is indeed true, which kind of makes it super confusing. So yeah, that’s probably what it is since BSG LOVES the complex and confusing.
I still say Dee can be a Cylon. I doubt that she and Lee have divorced already, although with only one reveal left, I doubt they’d waste it on her. Perhaps it’s Lee. He has always been a bit of a rebel to Pops.
Hell, yeah the Cylons lie. Six has lied. Athena lied. Simon lied. And I believe Leoben lied about Adama. I would really be upset if RDM decided to play games with the Kenobi line.
Even the Centurions lied. Here we are thinking that they’re this bad ass robot Mod Squad. But, it turns out that they also plant trees.
When Leoben said “Adama’s a Cylon.” He never said which Adama. We all kind of assumed it was Bill Adama and not Lee. Now Lee is seeing “Head Starbuck”. I agree. I don’t think that the Cylons ever directly lie about anything…perhaps half-truths, but never really lie.
I love the point about Ander’s though…I totally forgot about that. BSG creators are always 3 steps ahead of me. Wow, that blows my mind right there. Thanks, Karl.
Cylons, like most people will lie to further their own agenda. They have lied since the mini-series when Leoben first told Adama that he was out there salvaging arms for profit at the Ragnor Anchoarge.
But, do the Cylons lie about not knowing who the final five are? I don’t think so, since if they did know who they were, then there would have been no need for Deanna to keep killing herself or locate and stand in the eye of Jupiter in order to discover the truth.
I think the Cylons that we know now, know just as much information about the final five or the Cylon “plan” as we do… if not less.
In flesh and bone, didn’t leoben lie about putting a nuke on one of the ships? That was the whole purpose of starbuck interigating him, and in the end he copped to just being a big old lying lier….. from lie-land. Even if he admitted it later on, if what i think you guys are arguing (that cylons may or may not be “programmed” to not lie) is totally moot.